this post was submitted on 15 Oct 2024
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Fuck AI

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A Massachusetts couple claims that their son's high school attempted to derail his future by giving him detention and a bad grade on an assignment he wrote using generative AI.

An old and powerful force has entered the fraught debate over generative AI in schools: litigious parents angry that their child may not be accepted into a prestigious university.

In what appears to be the first case of its kind, at least in Massachusetts, a couple has sued their local school district after it disciplined their son for using generative AI tools on a history project. Dale and Jennifer Harris allege that the Hingham High School student handbook did not explicitly prohibit the use of AI to complete assignments and that the punishment visited upon their son for using an AI tool—he received Saturday detention and a grade of 65 out of 100 on the assignment—has harmed his chances of getting into Stanford University and other elite schools.

Yeah, I'm 100% with the school on this one.

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[–] ninjabard 190 points 2 months ago (1 children)

He didn't do the assignment. Those parents can get bent.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

But I heard the kid was responsible for writing all the material the AI was trained on!

/s

[–] [email protected] 147 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

What would the parents' stance be if he'd asked someone else to write his assignment for him?

Same thing.

Dale and Jennifer Harris allege that the Hingham High School student handbook did not explicitly prohibit the use of AI to complete assignments

I'll bet you the student handbook doesn't explicitly prohibit taking a shit on his desk, but he'd sure as Hell be disciplined for doing it. This whole YOU DIDN'T EXPLICITLY PROHIBIT THIS SO IT'S FINE!!!111oneoneeleventy! thing that a certain class of people have is, to my mind, a clear sign of sociopathy.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Basically their stance is that the school policy didn't explicitly say he couldn't use AI, so perhaps the policy specifically mentions another person doing the assignment?

[–] [email protected] 58 points 2 months ago (4 children)

You know, now that I think about it, if I were in an admissions office I'd be keeping a quiet database of news stories like this so I know which people I would automatically reject no matter what their scores.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 2 months ago

Yep, make that part of their so called permanent record.

If you work in a job for a year or more (sometimes less), it will become very clear which of your co-workers cheated their way through school. They're the absolute worst to deal with professionally, and I hate them for constantly producing slop.

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[–] Rolando 37 points 2 months ago (1 children)

their stance is that the school policy didn’t explicitly say he couldn’t use AI,

According to the school's lawyers, the policy against AI was stated in a presentation that the student attended, and the policy against AI was handed out at a parent's night and on an online portal, see pg 4-6 of the following: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.275605/gov.uscourts.mad.275605.13.0.pdf

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago

Hah! So it's even worse! It actually was explicitly prohibited and the parents are still suing!

Definite cluster of sociopathy there.

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[–] jordanlund 104 points 2 months ago (3 children)

"a grade of 65 out of 100 on the assignment—has harmed his chances of getting into Stanford University and other elite schools."

No, using AI tools harmed his chances...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago

Ehh, the AI did its job as a tool.

The kid harmed his chances by being a tool.

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 2 months ago (2 children)

They didn't even give him the 0 he deserved?

[–] [email protected] 39 points 2 months ago

Right? He didn't earn the knowledge for himself (which is the whole point of school) so he was lucky, IMO, to even get that undeserved 65.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 2 months ago (5 children)

It's been a while since teachers were allowed to give out 0s in highschool. When I taught 12 years ago the lowest I was allowed to give was a 65. Even if nothing was turned in.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I can't imagine how bad of a student I would have been if "literally don't do it" was a 65. That's insane.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I imagine this must depend on the location of the school in question. Im in my mid 20s, so my high school experience was more recent than 12 years ago, but I remember getting quite a few zeros (was an absolutely horrible procrastinator who would tend to respond to the stress of having a due date coming up by doing anything else to not think about the source of said stress, which led to a lot of simply not turned in schoolwork)

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[–] Passerby6497 70 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What fucking snowflakes. When I was a kid, if you had someone write your paper for you, you got a 0 for the assignment. When you go to college, they'll fail you out of the course for that shit (because its cheating).

The only ones harming this kid's future is the parents trying to coddle their kid and protect them from the (rather light) consequences of their actions.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I taught in Chinese universities for 16 years. Initially I liked it. The students were hard-working and respectful. Parents listened to teacher advice. If kids were caught cheating there was Hell to pay ... from the parents, not just the school.

Over that 16 year period, though, everything changed. Parents started showing up to middle schools whose response to any misconduct was to privately donate red portraits of Chairman Mao to the school administrators and suddenly all records of misconduct went missing. Marks were "reassessed". Leading to universities being flooded by the worst imaginable students who'd never had a negative effect to any shenanigans their entire lives.

Only universities are a different world entirely. It takes a whole lot more red portraits of Chairman Mao to get misconduct erased in university. Way more such portraits than all but the top 0.1% could pay. So these poor kids, having slid by for 12 years of no consequences suddenly get hit square between the eyes with consequences that for the first time in their lives Daddy couldn't erase by waving said red portraits around.

Yes, they were little shits. Yes, I hated them as students. But I still felt bad for them as people because they were made monsters. They weren't born monsters.

Still didn't stop me from quitting teaching, though.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (12 children)

It's funny how this reads like a typical "China bad" comment but goes on to show how economic inequality ruins society.

Not doubting or criticising you at all, just observing that "communist China" has very capitalist problems. If only they were more communist

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[–] jaybone 46 points 2 months ago (3 children)

They want this kid to get into Stanford?? 🤣🤣🤣

[–] riodoro1 29 points 2 months ago

He cheats from young. Great ivy shit material. Maybe if he rapes somebody he’ll get to be a supreme court justice.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If they had the connections, then the grade here wouldn't matter.

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[–] Treczoks 14 points 2 months ago

Liar, cheater, and lawsuit wielder? Perfect Ivy League material. Thats how political and managerial elites are made from.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago (5 children)

... allege that the Hingham High School student handbook did not explicitly prohibit the use of AI to complete assignments.

These are the type of people that force manufacturers to put wildly insane warnings of what not to do with their products.

Idiots. The entire family.

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[–] chiliedogg 40 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Way to Streisand Effect the incident for potential universities.

"Our kid will cheat and we'll sue you for calling him out" looks great on a college application.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

No no, see, what ivy league colleges will see is "we have 'fuck you' money and we're willing to blow it on our kid's education".

[–] Etterra 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I hope these parents get their legs kicked out from under them. The kid cheated and got caught.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (2 children)

These kids need to learn what "fuck around and find out" means by themselves. Sheltering them from consequences does a lot of damage later on.

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[–] bitjunkie 38 points 2 months ago (1 children)

High-tech fancy plagiarism is still plagiarism.

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[–] shalafi 33 points 2 months ago (3 children)

OK, the parents are suing. And the district already filed a motion to dismiss.

Please understand, the world isn't a nuts as the headlines tell us. Judges toss frivolous lawsuits all day long. We only hear about the nut cases because they're nut cases. Money says this case is never heard.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 2 months ago (26 children)

Bad parenting. Not only did they not talk to their kid about what constitutes honourable academic conduct, not only did they not talk to their kid about the pitfalls of using generative AI, especially in an academic context, they are now teaching their brat that the proper response to fucking up is to blame the rules, to blame the school, to blame other people. Bad parents.

I wonder, have these people no shame?

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[–] Duamerthrax 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Unless the school used one of those ai detection services that are known for giving false positives, I'll side with the school.

[–] settxy 46 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The kid used AI. The lawsuit doesn't argue they didn't and are being unfairly punished. They're arguing that there weren't any rules explicitly saying they couldn't use AI.

Sounds like rich parents mad at the world cuz their kid fucked up. How can they ruin our perfect Billy's life over a decision he made, knowing full well it was wrong!!!! Now he might have to go to a less prestigious college... Boohoo!

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[–] Wogi 18 points 2 months ago

My wife teaches, and she can spot the AI essays at a distance, it's not hard.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Looks like the handbook does explicitly mention it:

Academic Integrity: Cheating and Plagiarism To cheat is to act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage. In an academic setting, cheating consists of such acts as communicating with other student(s) by talking or writing during a test or quiz; unauthorized use of technology, including Artificial Intelligence (AI), during an assessment; or any other such action that invalidates the result of the assessment or other assignment. Plagiarism consists of the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author, including Artificial Intelligence, and the representation of such as one’s own work. Plagiarism and cheating in any form are considered disciplinary matters to be addressed by the school. A teacher apprehending one or more students cheating on any graded assignment, quiz or test will record a failing grade for that assignment for each student involved. The teacher will inform the parent(s) of the incident and assistant principal who will add the information to the student’s disciplinary file. The assistant principal may take further action if they deem it warranted. See Code of Discipline.

From https://core-docs.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/documents/asset/uploaded_file/4900/HHS/4719901/Student_Handbook_Code_Discipline_2024_2025.pdf

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[–] SocialMediaRefugee 23 points 2 months ago (7 children)

This is one reason why people don't want to be teachers and why education is going down the toilet. Entitled parents who run to lawyers in our hyperlitigious society every time their spawn is slightly inconvenienced.

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[–] eran_morad 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

These fucking dickbrain parents. What do they think, they win the lawsuit and Stanford doesn’t realize the kid took a shortcut?

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[–] hardcoreufo 21 points 2 months ago

None of my friend's parents growing up would sue the school, but they were all the type of parents to go in and argue with teachers over grades. It was usually to go from a B to an A or some bullshit.

My parents on the other hand were more like, you fucked that up didn't you if I didn't do well on something. I would have been mortified if they argued about grades on my behalf.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Great job parents, now your kid will learn nothing from this teachable moment.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago

Kid learns nothing by cheating on the assignment.

Well, at least the bad grade and detention will be a teachable moment.

Parents: Hold my daytime wine.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

Perhaps it is also that LLMs are horrible at making any kind of argument and probably wrote a shit paper, never mind the plagiarism? Frankly a 65 is a high mark for doing something like this

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[–] PugJesus 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

He should have gotten a zero.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 months ago

Parents with more money than sense.

[–] AgentGrimstone 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

They think their AI dependent son is qualified to go to an elite school.

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[–] RampantParanoia2365 15 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Article doesn't say if he used AI to wholesale write his paper, which obviously is cheating, or if he used it as a resource like Google. Some details would be nice here.

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