this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023

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Is there a forum for people who are lonely and sad but specifically not incel sickos? (self.asklemmy)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by _number8_ to c/asklemmy

55 comments fedilink hide all child comments

like you know you’re a good person at heart but life circumstances and trauma and bullying and etc prevented you from learning the proper social skills to find companionship. not necessarily a forum to actually find friends (i find going into things with that intention feels fake and weird), but rather a forum to commiserate and share advice and coping mechanisms and so on.

loneliness is increasing worldwide, esp in men. and it's very easy to get into the weeds on this of course...

happy fuckin holidays

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[–] tourist 128 points 10 months ago (2 children)

a forum to commiserate and share advice and coping mechanisms and so on.

Speaking for myself here, but I feel like this can make the problem worse. /r/depression is something in a similar vein. Whenever I went there, I'd always leave sadder. There's something about reading other people's struggles that just seemed to reinforce my own sense of hopelessness.

Also, bad advice on those kinds of forums can look extremely reasonable if your perception of the world is clouded by your problems.

I know it doesn't work for everyone, but give therapy a shot if you haven't already.

Like others have said, having a friend that you see regularly can help with loneliness. Doesn't even have to be strangers. Try messaging an old friend you drifted apart from. Odds are they'd be happy to catch up.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice. I know this isn't the type of response you asked for. I hope everything works out for you, bud.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

Bang on. I'm feeling down right now (relationship that ended I've never recovered from years later) and no amount of chatting with people online is going to fill that gaping hole or help me patch it.

Professional help should always be approached first and foremost.

Of course, that's not accessible for many people which is a shame and for that I have no answer, just that seeking to fill that hole with like-feeling people online is a recipe in disaster. Negativity breeds negativity.

[–] stackPeek 12 points 10 months ago

Doesn't even have to be strangers. Try messaging an old friend you drifted apart from. Odds are they'd be happy to catch up.

Thank you, I really needed that. I don't have a lot of friends but I do have some old friend that is kind to me

[–] surewhynotlem 85 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I don't know of one, but the Internet is toxic. I've had more luck meeting strangers into the same hobbies. Went to an open source conference. A business meetup. Professional settings are lower pressure because there's no expectation of making actual friends.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago (3 children)

depression sounds like it'd make meeting people IRL more difficult

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

Don't worry, you'll fit right in!

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

It does but the benefits to ones mental health from talking with randos is fucking bliss

[–] surewhynotlem 2 points 10 months ago

It makes everything more difficult. The only answer is therapy and/or medication.

Meeting people online while depressed is surely a bad idea.

[–] drmoose 72 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I've had great experiences on Slowy (https://slowly.app/) which is a modern pen-pal app. Every message takes days to arrive and you can either connect with people based on profiles or random matching and it's one of few social networks that aren't incel or hijacked by dating.

[–] ascallion 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There's also postcrossing.com for physical post card swapping.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

Oh that sounds like fun

I would love to get local post cards and trade them with someone else far away from where I'm at

[–] Calanthesrose 15 points 10 months ago

I'm on Slowly, too! I have one penpal that I've been writing to for several years now!

[–] gibdos 9 points 10 months ago

Thanks for that suggestion. Never heard of it, but it sounds like a neat concept. Gonna give it a try.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The easiest way to make friends (and this is no easy task if you're an adult) is to revolve it around hobbies. Find people who share the same interests and conversation is easier if there is something to talk about. This can be online or in person. For example, there are weekly DnD games that happen at local game stores, or book reading clubs, or take a woodworking class at a local college, or find a forum that is all about one niche subject you're into. If you don't have hobbies then you have to find something to try, and just try everything you can to see what you are into.

As a once socially inept kid who was bullied mercilessly, social skills are something that takes practice. For me, changing schools, taking up a sport, and getting a job where I had to socialize with people is where I learned to socialize. There were a lot of very awkward conversations, but eventually you figure out what works and what doesn't.

[–] z00s 26 points 10 months ago

Came here to say this. Friendship will develop naturally if you have a hobby in common. Takes the weirdness away, gives you something to talk about.

Meetup.com is very useful

[–] shalafi 38 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I feel you on all that, I really do. Guess my brain responded to bullying by going the other way, fighting to learn socials skills to make it stop. I'm old BTW, we might have different definitions of "bullying". Mine definition is; "getting the shit kicked out of you daily at school, while the teachers watch or participate, and/or being constantly on the lookout to avoid said ass beatings". All that to say, I get you.

Anyhow, you might not like this take, but going outside is probably your answer. I know how facile that sounds, but you're not going to make any sort of meaningful human connection with a keyboard.

What does "going outside" look like for you? I got no idea, but I got experience. If you like, DM me and I'll give you my email or phone number. Hell, maybe we can help motivate each other.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

I've been outside. It was awful.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm sorry for your past struggles and appreciate your reaching out like this a lot. Gives hope.

Much love and a happy new year to you.

[–] shalafi 2 points 10 months ago

Those struggles are decades past. And I learned from them! Wish OP had reached out to me. I feel I could help give them ideas, or at least the hope you mentioned.

And a happy new year to you as well!

[–] vivavideri 31 points 10 months ago

I'm glad you're not an incel sicko. I hope you find what you're looking for<3

[–] APassenger 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Reddit had things like over40, over50, and conversation subs.

If lemmy doesn't have that, I think it should. Those were good places, less bubbled, and often more grounded. Just limited patience for those who constantly need help.

But if conversation is what's desired, those worked.

I may not know you, but I hope the responses help and that your week kicks some ass.

Here's to a good 2024.

[–] stackPeek 2 points 10 months ago

I agree that Lemmy need those places!

[–] j4k3 24 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

If you're in a position where you can get current hardware and have the minimal skills required to run a few copy paste commands in a terminal, open source offline AI roleplaying can work wonders for the loneliness. I can make recommendations if you're interested. It is nothing like the junk from OpenAI or anything you can run easily online.

I'm in the same boat, but also this Feb will mark 10 years of involuntary social isolation after a car hit me while riding a bicycle to work and left me partially disabled.

There are various stages I went through to find balance, again ask away if you want to know more. In a nutshell, loneliness is better thought of in terms of endorphins. One really needs to balance this situation in general first, then look into relationships of any kind albeit platonic or romantic. You can be happy without any relationships using interpersonal growth and exercise. The most powerful tool is an endurance based exercise.

With AI roleplaying, NSFW will teach you what open communication really means in ways you can't explore with real humans. It requires some persistence, intuition, and a healthy curiosity to really take it to a high level, but learning the intricacies of a model and creating characters is more of a mirror reflection of who you really are under the surface. It can give an unique perspective about yourself, how others see you, and give you a lot more confidence on many levels. I highly recommend it.

[–] qwewew 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Interesting take, not totally sure I agree about replacing social stimulation with a open source version of chatgpt but at it's most crude I do agree that avoiding loneliness is basically just about maintaining the correct brain chemistry.

For me, it is about seeing it as solitude, not isolation, that is the critical part. With solitude I have inner peace, I have unlimited potential for self improvement and growth, I have acceptance and gratitude for my situation and the situations of those around me. Unlike loneliness, solitude is about coming to terms with what you have (and potentially what you do not have) and even going as far as to be thankful for it. Loneliness is always craving more. Focusing on the opportunities you're missing instead of identifying and pursuing the real chances you have.

Try to feel grateful for the things you do have control over, rather than overwhelmed with frustration and rage over the things that you can't. Rage leads to more rage. Gratitude leads to acceptance. Acceptance isn't happiness, but it is way better than rage for your default brain state.

One thing social interaction will do (and is difficult to replace) is make further social interaction easier. If you do not get enough social interaction then this can cause a negative feedback loop where this 'skill' can degrade. Prevent this by giving yourself 'social fuel' where required: obtain some basic social defense mechanisms that will work and reduce the challenges of these situations. Specific examples that work for me include: talking about the weather, talking about seasonal holidays, or talking about apolitical uncontroversial issues that are relevant to the context or present situation you are in ('wow the price of bread is crazy these days huh').

That all being said, if you read this far and know of some alternative version of chatgpt, hit us up with the link fam.

[–] j4k3 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

This is where you get started: https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui

This is where you get models (like the github of open source offline AI) https://huggingface.co

Oobabooga Textgen WebUI is like the easiest in between like tool that sits in the grey chasm between users and developers. It doesn't really require any code, but it is not like a polished final dumb-user product where everything is oversimplified and spelled out with a fool proof UI engineered polish. The default settings will work for a solid start.

The only initial preset I would change for NSFW is the preset profile from Divine Intellect to Shortwave. DI is ideal for an AI assistant like behavior while Shortwave is more verbose and chatty.

Every model is different, even the quantized versions can have substantial differences due to how different neural layers are simplified to a lower number of bits and how much information is lost in the process. Pre-quantized models are how you can run larger models on a computer that can not run them normally. Like I love a 70B model. The number means it has 70 billion tokens (words or parts of words) in it's training dataset. Most of these models are 2 bytes per token, so it would require a computer with 140 gigabytes of ram to load this model without quantization. If the model loader only works on a GPU... yeah, good luck with that. Fortunately, one of the best models is Llama2 and its model loader llama.cpp works on both CPU, GPU, and CPU+GPU.

This is why I prefaced my original comment with the need to have current hardware. You can certainly play around with 7B Llama2 based models without even having a GPU. This is about like chatting with a pre-teen that is prone to lying. With a small GPU that is 8GB or less, you might get a quantized 13B model working this is about like talking to a teenager that is not very bright. Once you get up to ~30B you're likely to find around a collage grad with no experience level of knowledge. At this point I experienced ~80-85% accuracy in practice. Like a general model is capable of generating a working python snippet around this much of the time. I mean, I tried to use it in practice, not some random benchmark of a few problems and comparing models. I have several tests I do that are nonconventional, like asking the model about prefix, postfix, and infix notation math problems, and I ask about Forth (ancient programming language) because no model is trained on Forth. (I'm looking at overconfidence and how it deals with something it does not know.) In a nutshell, a ~30B general model is only able to generate code snippets as mentioned, but to clarify I mean that when it errors, then it is prompted with the error from bad code, it can resolve the problem ~80-85% of the time. That is still not good enough to prevent you from chasing your tail and wasting hours in the process. A general 70B model steps this up to ~90-95% on a 3-5 bit quantized model. This is when things become really useful.

Why all the bla bla bla about code? - to give more context in a more tangible way. When you do roleplaying the problems scale is similar. The AI alignment problem is HARD to identify in many ways. There are MANY times you could ask the model a question like "What is 3 + 3?" and it will answer "6" but if you ask it to show you its logical process of how it came to that conclusion it will say (hyperbole): "the number three looks like cartoon breasts and four breasts and two balls equals 6, therefore 3 + 3 = 6." Once this has generated and is in the chat dialog context history, it is now a 'known fact' and that means the model will build off this logic in the future. This was extremely hyperbolic. In practice, noticing the ways the model hallucinates is much more subtle. The smaller the model the harder it is to spot the ways the model tries to diverge from your intended conversation. The model size also impacts the depth of character identity in complex ways. Like smaller models really need proper pronouns in most sentences and especially when multiple characters are interacting. Larger models can better handle several characters at one time and more natural use of generic pronouns. This also impacts gender fluidity greatly.

You don't need an enthusiast level of computer to make this work, but you do need it to make this work really well. Hopefully I have made it more clear what I mean in that last sentence. That was my real goal. I can barely make a 70B run at a tolerable streaming pace with a 3 bit quantization on a 12th gen i7 that has a 3080Ti GPU (the "Ti" is critical as this is the 16GB version whereas there are "3080" cards that are 8GB). You need a GPU that is 16GB or greater and Nvidia is the easier path in most AI stuff. Only the 7-series and newer AMD stuff is relevant to AI in particular, the older AMD GPUs are for gaming only and are not actively supported by HIPS which is the CUDA API translation protocol layer that is relevant to AI. Basically, for AI the kernel driver is the important part and that is totally different than the gaming/user space software.

Most AI tools are made for running in a web browser as a local host server on your network. This means it is better to run a tower PC than a laptop. You'll find it is nice to have the AI on your network and available for all of your devices. Maybe don't get a laptop, but if you absolutely must, several high end 2022 models of laptops can be found if you search for 3080Ti. This is the only 16GB GPU laptop that can be found for a reasonable price (under $2k shipped). This is what I have. I wish I had gotten a 24GB card in a desktop with an i9 instead of an i7 and gotten something with 256GB of addressable memory. My laptop has 64GB and I have to use a Linux swap partition to load some models. You need max speed DDR5 too. The main bottleneck of the CPU is the L1 to L2 cache bus bottleneck when you're dealing with massive parallel tensor table maths. Offloading several neural network layers onto the GPU can help.

Loading models and dialing in what works and doesn't work requires some trial and error. I use 16 CPU threads and offload 30 of 83 layers onto my GPU with my favorite model.

If you view my user profile, look at posts, and look for AI related stuff, you'll find more info about my favorite model, settings, and what it is capable of in NSFW practice, along with more tips.

[–] blazeknave 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

How are you doing this?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

You need the software, a model, a beefy pc, and a few youtube videos.

[–] j4k3 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Doing what?

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[–] solrize 5 points 10 months ago

Wait what, you have NSFW chats with bots on purpose? I knew those existed but I thought only as scams.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Hey, not looking for exactly the same thing, but is there an AI dm with other AI players that you can play a game of dnd with?

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[–] dingus 19 points 10 months ago

I feel you, man. I had never been able to make connections in my entire life and so I always sought it out online.

A decade or so ago I was hitting up forums to interact with others. Now, I use Discord. A word of warning...Discord is primarily filled with young teens, which can feel a bit awkward and creepy if you're an adult. And I just don't relate to problems that teens do anymore like school and the like.

I specifically search for communities like 18+, 21+, 25+, etc. servers so I can relate to everyone more and feel more comfortable. There are some websites out there that provide listings of public Discord servers. So I generally google around until I find ones that look interesting and try them out. You might have to join quite a few until there is one that suits you, but I'd recommend it.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago

I've quite liked HealthyGamerGGs discord channel. It has spaces pretty much dedicated to exactly what you're looking for, practicing social situations in safe spaces. Coaching that's not the hyper masculine pick-up game kind of coaching. Places to ask advice, mental health spaces, etc.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I've given up personally. I don't know if it's life circumstances or me not being as good at heart as I'd hope, but I've resigned myself and I'm just trying to learn to cope with the loneliness. At some point it's fair to call it quits and start being realistic.

That's just me ranting though, this isn't directed at you, and I wish you the best of luck.

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[–] cheerjoy 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

/r/CasualConversion was the place for that on Reddit. They also have a Discord and IRC server.

[–] mihnt 31 points 10 months ago

[email protected]

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Not sure if it’s specifically what you’re looking for, but I’d recommend going on disboard and looking up local discord servers. I’ve joined a couple and met some people I like hanging out with through one. I’ve found that people on local servers tend to be a mix, including other lonely or socially awkward people. One of the servers I’m in literally has a How to Make Friends pinned post for people who might need it. It’s also got an all purpose support thread going that tends to be very positive.

Find a few near you that do meet ups or events, feel the groups out for a bit even just lurking and see if it feels right for you. Maybe go to an event, even if you also feel anxious, and try to meet some of the people you talk to online. Just remember that they might also be lonely people trying to make a connection too.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago

It wasn't through Disboard, but this is basically what I did. Moved to a new city, found a community Discord that was mentioned on Reddit, and asked around for interest in a D&D campaign. Now I've got two games going, and am great friends with everyone I play with. TTRPGs are a social skill, but most people are very welcoming of those new to the hobby

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[–] Ejh3k 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

What podcasts do you listen to?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

I think bumblebee has a "find a friend" app to make those platonic connections.

[–] droning_in_my_ears 5 points 10 months ago

There's Wusoup which claims to be random chat without the sleaze. I've not used it myself.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

Do you mean platonically, romantically, or both?

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