this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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In this case, I'm referring to the notion that we all make minor sacrifices in our daily interactions in service of a "greater good" for everyone.

"Following the rules" would be a simplified version of what I'm talking about, I suppose. But also keeping an awareness/attitude about "How will my choices affect the people around me in this moment? "Common courtesy", "situational awareness", etc...

I don't know that it's a "new" phenomenon by any means, I just seem to have an increasing (subjective) awareness of it's decline of late.

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[–] [email protected] 158 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Generally speaking, consideration for others is inversely proportional to the desperation of a given community. Think about how hard people have to work these days and still can't afford a decent place to live and food to eat. It makes perfect sense that someone who feels that the system is keeping them down, and wearing them to the bone won't be conscientious of how their actions will affect others. That mixed with Western ideals of extreme individualism, and a political climate that promotes divisiveness, it's truly a wonder that anyone has any consideration at all for their fellow countrymen.

[–] yumpoopsoup 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Is it not true that struggling groups of people form the strongest communities?

[–] IonAddis 20 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It seems to go either way, depending on all the little local variables. Strong communities, or dog-eat-dog.

Also, you can have situations where if you "conform", you're protected by the growing-together, but if something makes you different, that community comes after you, out of fear that you being different will bring even more hardship down on everyone's head.

My social group is made up of basically goths, queers, nerdy weirdos who grew up in fundamentally conservative and religious towns and families, and are (now as adults) generally very supportive and chill with differences--but we got a hell of a lot of bullying from our natal families/cultures growing up. Based on individual personalities, there's honestly little reason we were rejected...we don't go out committing crimes, or bully, or be mean. But the differences we do have seem to scare or make our families feel ashamed of us--so, rejection. And so we lose the protection that the community offers others.

I recognize communities supporting each other is important--but the bit where perfectly good people who are kind and smart and aren't committing crimes are just thrown on the curb like trash because we don't believe in religion like others do, or because we ask questions when things don't make sense...I struggle with that bit, for obvious reasons.

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[–] Boozilla 117 points 1 year ago (16 children)

My spouse and I talk about this often. A very obvious example is how rude (and recklessly dangerous) people are while driving. And myriad minor things out in public in general. No sense of community and a complete lack of consideration for others is the new normal. It got worse during and after the pandemic.

[–] AA5B 15 points 1 year ago

It really has gotten worse since the pandemic, and I see it retry much every time I’m out. Earlier today I was out walking with my dog and kid. At one point we needed to cross the street at a four way stop. However, three cars in a row didn’t even slow down for their stop sign. It’s dangerous out there

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[–] who8mydamnoreos 97 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Our communities have been destroyed by this cult of hyper-individualism.

[–] SocialMediaRefugee 29 points 1 year ago

The balance between society and the individual has been tilted wildly to the individual. Everyone is an island now.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The shopping cart test for a community. Or seeing trash on the ground in public places, tells you alot about a area.

The golden rule: do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Culture is learned from your peer group. Feeling a investmemt in your environment and a sense of ownership in it's condition change behavior. "This is our public park, so I won't littler", vs "This is their public park so I don't have to clean up".

I just want to live in a nice world, so I treat my world nice. Even when nobody is looking.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago

The shopping cart test for a community. [...] Culture is learned from your peer group.

Perfect example... Germany universally has this deposit system for their shopping carts but bypassed the handling and inserting of a coin into the cart at the height of covid.

Since then I have barely seen any reversal there. People still return their carts although they don't need to get their coin back where the system is still disabled. Or they just conveniently forget to use the system and still bring their carts back without locking them there where the system is operational again.

The actual deposit was basically only needed for the learning phase. After this it just works automatically.

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[–] themeatbridge 63 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I don't know, but I just spent two days at an amusement park, so I'm in the sort of mood where I hate all people everywhere.

Like why the fuck are you just standing in the middle of a walkway? No, your group of 20 can't jump the line to catch up with the one 6 year old who's been alone for an hour. And double fuck everyone in the wave pool.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Family of 5 walks out of a busy door, takes two steps, stops to discuss their plans. There are literally a hundred people around coming and going. And that’s where you stop?

Happens on the daily in the city.

No one anywhere “cares” about anyone else. Don’t like it, deal. Or better yet keep quiet and leave me the fuck alone. Mentality of 95% of this world it seems.

[–] wilberfan 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

My favorite version of the large-group-stops-in-the-worst-spot is when they do that at the top (or bottom) of ESCALATORS. 🤦‍♂️

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[–] PunnyName 53 points 1 year ago (27 children)

Paying taxes is one way of doing this, and man, people are really hellbent on trying to avoid that.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

People are more inclined to pay taxes when they think it's actually going to something. Check out socialist Nordic counties, where many people proudly pay the high tax

If your gov is corrupt then yeah, why would you want to pay taxes

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

I was a beneficiary of an inheritance. I learned that my tax rate would be that of my state (higher) rather than family members in another state. A relative framed it as a negative. I said that I was happy that the taxes I'd pay would go into my community and not theirs. It's like a foreign concept that taxes are good and provide infrastructure that we depend upon daily.

[–] dan1101 18 points 1 year ago

I think if wages were higher people would have less problem parting with some of their income. But when living expenses are so close to net income it's tough.

[–] Ace_of_spades 15 points 1 year ago

Its trickle-down tax evasion. When I see our politicians avoiding paying millions in taxes and getting away with it, I wonder why should I contribute. I see Apple, Amazon and the tech companies who make a fortune in my country get away with sending the profits to the Cayman islands. All the super markets having a zero-tax liability, so more of the burden falls onto me, I figure maybe I should get an accountant who can help me too.

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[–] Gamey 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't know if it's actually real but I feel like since Corona and the Lockdowns many people are even nastier than before.

[–] Phlogiston 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm looking forward to research on that.

I've an impression that "people are even nastier than before" has been a result of Trump era politics which reveled in nastiness


which itself appeared to be a pushback from nasty people about Obama being president. Basically its been a growing divide and was made a lot worse when such a prominent political group doubled down on divisiveness as a tribal identity.

I think it predated covid, which certainly made things worse, but I don't really know what the cause was.

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[–] TheDoctorDonna 45 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My husband and I discuss this regularly. The loss of the social contract.

It is so sad to see so many people respond with "not my responsibility." Why isn't it? If you want to be a part of society then it is your responsibility. Part of being "civilized" is the strongest helping the weakest and most vulnerable. Our truest measure as humans is how we treat those who need the most.

Bringing other people up to a dignified level increases your value, not decreases. It doesn't take away from you to let others have dignity and respect.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Unfortunately, there are lots of situations in life where being a piece of shit gets you rewards.

That person cutting you off in traffic, grabbing the last item on the shelf when you were there first, cutting in line, cheating on their taxes, stealing the job you were in line to get, along with the infinite examples of this in the business and political world.

The vast vast majority of assholes never face real consequences, and those consequences rarely outweigh the benefits they’ve enjoyed from being an asshole.

[–] wilberfan 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think about the "zero consequences" thing a lot. I help run the local farmers' market, and recently our city has stepped up parking enforcement. (As a "rule-follower", I celebrated the change.) Our customers are howling at the parking tickets they're getting. They come to the market Info Booth to complain to us--as if it were our responsibility somehow.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yeah there is a reason why stories or videos or movies showcasing justice are so popular. It’s because very rarely in your life do you see real justice.

You need those movies and videos to show you the good guys winning because most times in life the bad guy wins.

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[–] FlashMobOfOne 31 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I don't know that I'd call it 'apparent'.

My interactions with people in my life are, by and large, very decent. Social media amplifies the bad actors and makes the problematic things seem more widespread than they are, but in fact, it's just an algorithm grabbing the same content you've had your eyeballs on consistently and feeding you more of it. That creates the illusion that the problem you're hearing about is worse than it may be.

I will say, though, that I've become more of a fan of massive retaliation when I do run into people who lack basic politeness. If I'm in the gym and someone's playing music on speakerphone, I will work out near them and turn on the loudest metal track in my playlist at full volume. I keep a stick of gel deodorant in my car to use on the door handles of people who park rudely, and if someone is speaking to another person rudely in my presence I always say something. I try not to answer rudeness for rudeness to a person's face, because just asking "Why would you speak to someone that way?" is usually more effective for defusing people than escalating aggression. (But you get my drift)

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[–] veganpizza69 29 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (5 children)

As an American: "How will my choices affect the people around me in this moment?" Is almost comical to see.

Most ~~assholes~~ of my fellow Americans think "That nosey sonofabitch needs to get out of my way! I want to light fireworks off at 4am how dare he say I shouldn't! FREEDUMB!"

I used to live behind a gas station. 3am and almost every shithead going get gas had their subwoofers set to "shatter windows a mile away"

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Yeah I feel you. Americans think that they're allowed to park their dodge ram on a sidewalk because it feels "unsafe" to park on a suburban street 20 feet away. God forbid their chance of being sideswiped is non-zero, because who cares about pedestrians or disabled folks.

I say this as an American. A lot of us are bonkers-selfish.

[–] solstice 14 points 1 year ago

Personal liberty is so misunderstood and abused in this country. This is a fantastic post. I think everyone needs to refresh their understanding of personal responsibility within this system we've arranged for ourselves. Radical freedumb only works for so long.

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[–] xylogx 28 points 1 year ago

Everyone in this thread is ignoring all of the invisible things we do everyday as part of the social contract:

-Every time someone stops at a red light

-Every time we accept a piece of paper and in return render some service or surrender some treasure

-Every person waiting in line everywhere

-Every person who pays taxes

-Every time we go to the grocery store and just take it for granted that there will be food at the grocery store

I get it some a-hole cut you off in traffic. But we rely on our social contract to literally stay alive. It is a miracle and the pinnacle of human achievement. Maybe just say thank you?

[–] emptyother 28 points 1 year ago (4 children)

For me its less of a contract and more of a built-in instinct. I feel physically ill if I think I unfairly annoy or hindering someone. I dont get why others feel like its only a contract, one which they can break if they want to. But they can and I have accepted it. So I dont despair, they are only human (and so am I).

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[–] gmtom 27 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What really gets me is the little stuff.

Major asshole stuff you can just write off as that person being a cunt by nature. But the dude on the bus playing tiktoks at full volume with 0 disregard probably isn't some irredeemable asshole, he's just a normal guy that doesn't give a fuck. Same with people that put their bags on seats or park in the way of traffic, or litter etc.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago

What's fascinating is reading about the social contract following WW2. It seems to line up that when that generation was in charge things like CEO pay wasn't off the charts. Then the next generation it started to go up. And now the 3rd generation it's completely bonkers.

Don't discount unions though. And don't forget that black people didn't get the social contract.

[–] MiddleWeigh 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think many people just have a fundamental misunderstanding that they are indeed a part of something larger.

[–] exemplarofthekauyon 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Some dude was chopping wood at 11 pm for at least 45 minutes at this camp site I'm occupying. I'd think that as neglect for others hahaha.

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[–] solstice 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was literally just reading about social contract theory the other day, brushing up because it's been a while since my political philosophy coursework in undergrad.

I was thinking this is definitely something everyone should brush up on, because it seems to be something many of us have forgotten about.

We live in a society, together, and give up certain freedoms in exchange for stable lifestyles lived without fear.

I think people have forgotten about everyone's individual responsibility, their mandate, to uphold their part of this social contract. I think people have forgotten what shame is.

Great post.

[–] killa44 15 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately, the people that need this reminder the most are also generally staunchly anti-intellectualism.

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[–] BJHanssen 20 points 1 year ago

You only feel bound by the social contract of the community / communities of which you actually feel part in your day to day. The one-two punch of neoliberal hyper-individualism (and the associated deliberate deconstruction of community) and online communities of special interests leads to people walking about a shared world with widely disparate senses of what their 'social contract' stipulates.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People are appearently thinking it's normal now to have loud long phonecalls or screaming conversations in public transport, so... Yeah I've noticed.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

It's about trust. In a low trust society people show no regard for the society as a whole and will only act in their own interest.

There are various reasons why people loose any sense of belonging to a society, but the outcomes are always the same and you will see what you are describing.

I wanna say today it's mainly caused by inequality and cronyism that's been skyrocketing over the last 50 years.

Inequality at the levels we're at destroys society from multiple angles, from making life completely unaffordable, to making dating harder to making different demographics blame each other for all the problems.

If you don't feel your investment into the society is reciprocated, then you feel no need to follow any of its rules or make any sacrifices for it.

[–] Rylyshar 17 points 1 year ago

Yes.

I remember years ago, meeting some Ayn Rand fans, and many of us who knew them considered them deluded and selfish. I remember the despair I felt when drump’s election proved that the deluded and selfish had increased and risen. And then the pandemic shone a spotlight on just how many had become proud of their delusion and selfishness. And yes, I sometimes get very depressed about this, but find ways to see the good and positive, and continue to hope.

[–] Dark_Blade 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not enough people were taught that they should treat other people how they, themselves, would like to be treated.

Well, it’s that or they just have zero self-respect.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Answering the title: yes. All the fucking time.

One of the little things that annoy me to hell and back is the "lack of decency" from marketing companies that robocall you nonstop. Knowing that someone is profitting off my (and millions') misery makes it even more infuriating.

Then there's the actually small, dumb stuff that people also insist, like refusing to get out of the way and thinking -you- are wrong for wanting to get past them. In a fucking public space that their fat ass is almost fully blocking.

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[–] UnhingedFridge 13 points 1 year ago

It's the prime source of despair for me at work, as a custodian. Be it staff, clients, or coworkers - being a lazy selfish piece of shit feels pretty common.

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