this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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In the past, laminated glass was usually installed in the windshield, with side and rear windows being tempered only.

The difference is that tempered glass is per-stressed so that when it cracks, it shatters into many tiny and dull pieces. Laminated is the same thing, but with layers of plastic sandwiched with layers of tempered glass. Laminated glass will still shatter, but will be held together by the plastic layers.

In an emergency, small improvised, or purpose built tools meant to shatter tempered glass will be useless if the glass is laminated.

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[–] dragontamer 185 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (9 children)

The problem wasn't the glass.

The problem was using wtf touchscreen controls to shift between drive and reverse. Mrs. Chao confused the two then died.

Shitty UI kills another person. Tesla fucking up basic UI design is the real villain here.

[–] HogsTooth 93 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I still blame Jeep for thinking a rotating selector was a good idea for a gear shifter. RIP Anton Yelchin.

[–] XeroxCool 39 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I thought his jeep issue was that P on the dial didn't actually guarantee the parking pawl was engaged to stop it from rolling. Separate from the lack of positive engagement with the P position, more about the physical disconnect between the two. Unless that was just the non-offensive language version of "user didn't turn the dial all the way and our polite warning chime was too polite"

[–] dragontamer 10 points 7 months ago

At least you can still feel the rotating Jeep shitty gear selector.

Touchscreen controls on a Tesla have no feel or feedback. It's a touchscreen.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sounds like both things are a problem?

[–] dragontamer 35 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I'm more inclined to blame Tesla's electronic locks and confusing manual override before blaming the windows though

Quick, do you know which panel to remove to find the non-electronic manual override in a Tesla? Car is sinking fast and the electronics just shorted out from the lake.

But sure, tons of bad design decisions here. It's hard to blame any one of them as the singular cause. If Tesla had easier to use manual override doors instead of electronic locks, if the windows could be broken, if the screen wasn't a confusing touchscreen mess, etc. Etc. Lots of factors and all are the cause.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Probably doesn't help that Teslas guess which direction you want to go in and you have to change it if it's wrong. https://www.autoblog.com/2021/01/28/tesla-new-gear-shifter-guesses-direction-you-want/

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (6 children)

she could have not floored it into a lake, but maybe I'm the only person that doesn't go balls out when they're backing out of a spot.

[–] YourAvgMortal 35 points 7 months ago (20 children)

Accidents happen, and people panic. Maybe she thought she was pressing the breaks and made the problem worse. I highly doubt anyone would do it intentionally.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago

I don't know about you, but in these parts we spin the gear selector to random, floor it and yell "JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL!"

[–] yildolw 9 points 7 months ago

Hertz stopped offering Tesla rentals because Teslas are designed to go balls out when the pedal is lightly touched and too often that involves straight into a wall or a lake

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[–] [email protected] 114 points 7 months ago (3 children)

it shatters into many tiny and dull pieces

Those pieces are not dull. They're just not jagged and shaped like knives like normal glass. I accidentally broke the rear window on my truck and, thinking it was dull like you described, started to pick it up with my hands. Big mistake.

[–] kamenlady 39 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You just unlocked a very unpleasant memory of picking up small glass pieces with my hand. Like you said, big mistake and the worst was that I didn't notice it was cutting at first...

[–] [email protected] 36 points 7 months ago (1 children)

One time I was climbing a rock in a park in Illinois, and reached up into a pile of finely-ground glass.

I managed to pick all but one little piece out of my fingers. That one piece was so far in I couldn’t get it.

Later on, I couldn’t find it. So I figured it had come out.

But a few weeks later my palm itched and that fucking piece of glass poked its way out of my palm.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago

Yeah, they're absolutely sharp. But since they're not point, you'll end with a hundred tiny cuts, instead of a giant shard stabbing through your torso..

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[–] Blue_Morpho 106 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (20 children)

This is astroturfing.

The issue with Tesla has never been that the windows are hard to break. The issue is that the rear doors are electronic with manual override hidden in a camouflaged panel at the bottom of the door pocket. A door pocket that was added to hold things. Those things will block access to the emergency door open.

[–] arin 12 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If you're underwater you're not gonna be able to open the doors without breaking the window unless there's an explosive. But partially submerged when 20% of the door is still above water then yes it should be possible to still open the door

[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But partially submerged when 20% of the door is still above water then yes it should be possible to still open the door

Partially submerged, the door would be very hard to open, due to water pressure. The water pressure needs to fully equalized between the inside and outside of the car.

Did we learn nothing from Mythbusters?

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[–] Blue_Morpho 14 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As Mythbusters proved, you wait until the car is almost full of water, and then open the door.

[–] Maggoty 9 points 7 months ago

Not quite. There is a period where water pressure hasn't built up enough to stop you. They were specifically testing pressure equalization, not that you should wait as a first course of action.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

This is coming up because of the recent drowning, right? Is someone saying the driver was unable to escape because she was unable to open a back door? It would make sense of there was an issue with rescuers unable to break rear windows, but how is the inaccessibility of the internal rear door emergency open cord relevant to this case?

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[–] [email protected] 89 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Good news for 2023 Honda HRV owners, because the rear glass shatters spontaneously on its own.

[–] [email protected] 49 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Kia/Hyundai from 2011 to 2022 have that beat with their entirely key less ignition and universal free ride share program.

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[–] madcaesar 56 points 7 months ago

We need HARD rules and regulations for car door handles and common controls. This push for screens and lack physical elements needs to stop.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

And Tesla, being the helpful sort, also makes it hard to open the doors in an emergency. The front might have manual door release mechanism somewhere - good luck finding it when the car is on fire or sinking. The rear... not so much.

EuroNCAP is changing its testing regime to negatively score manufacturers who remove critical physical controls and it should probably include door handles in that regime.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I feel they should outright ban them from sale, not just reduce the score.

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[–] hikaru755 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Not that I disagree with you generally, but in the recent case, manual door release wouldn't have helped, as it's basically impossible to push open a car door against the water pressure outside a submerged car.

[–] Blue_Morpho 12 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, you wait for pressure to equalize. But in a Tesla after pressure has equalized and you could open the rear door, the manual rear seat door open is a pull string under a camouflaged panel at the bottom of the door pocket. A door pocket that is probably filled with stuff because Tesla added the door pocket so you can put stuff in it.

It's intentionally designed to be unsafe.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It's still possible to open it before the car submerges. It's also possible to open it if you have the wherewithal to wait until the inside is nearly full. That's providing you know where the damned release lever is. But if you're panicking and pushing the electronic release and nothing happens then you're going to die no matter what. Same too if the car is on fire or whatever.

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[–] MataVatnik 31 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Wasn't it also the door opening mechanism was electronic and it stopped functioning once underwater?

[–] IphtashuFitz 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Even a purely mechanical door can be extremely difficult to open when partially submerged. The pressure of the water will hold the door shut until the water equalizes on both sides of the door.

But yeah, once totally submerged and flooded an electric door likely won’t open while a mechanical one will.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (3 children)

There is apparently a manual lever hidden underneath the button, but that sure does seem like a bad design idea in an emergency.

[–] iAmNotorious 17 points 7 months ago (5 children)

I hate Tesla and traded mine in after only two months of ownership, but in no way is the lever hidden or not extremely obvious. In fact it is more obvious than the button. Several times I had passengers try to use the manual lever, which doesn't lower the window when used. After the second person did it, moving forward I told every person who hadn't been in my car before to use the button before getting out. Was one of the many reasons I traded it in.

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[–] partial_accumen 16 points 7 months ago (14 children)

There is apparently a manual lever hidden underneath the button,

"hidden"

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (24 children)

You're not breaking a tempered glass without the designated tool either and almost nobody has that. There's this famous clip of a news anchor demonstrating how "easy" it is to break a car window with a hammer and he needed like 8 attempts.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago

The reason Tesla was in the news over this was because a rich lady reversed into a pond. So the rear windows wouldn't be facing up in that situation...

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Why did they switch to laminated in the side and rear windows?

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[–] phoneymouse 9 points 7 months ago (17 children)

Anyone know of a reasonable tool that can get through laminated glass and be kept near the drivers seat?

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Tempered glass windows offer better theft protection which is why they are increasingly used.

[–] fuckwit_mcbumcrumble 37 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Laminated*

They're used for noise insulation not theft. In theft it's just a minor inconvenience. Shatter the window with a rock, then punch the floppy laminated shards in.

[–] Cort 11 points 7 months ago

No, more often, it's smash the laminated window, get confused and then smash another window. If the 2nd window isn't laminated, they're in, if it is laminated too, then they smash your quarter glass since they're basically never laminated.

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