Ask Lemmy

I stopped talking to them because every time I did I would have to correct things that they say because I am more knowledgeable about absolutely everything given that I'm not a dumbass

I moved a couple states away from my family to minimize any interaction. It's not just politics. Their politics are, however, and indicator that they're not the type of people I want to associate with, so the extra distance facilitates less contact.

Of course, I moved to Iowa, which has since shifted from purplish to red. At least I'm on a blue city.

I'm low-contact with a couple of my core family. When we do meet, the other relatives are usually nice enough to just stop any political conversations or rants. Every once in a while, one slips through and I just ignore it, but our interactions have become infrequent enough that it's maybe yearly.

It's heartbreaking to both see some real opinions in some cases (some of which are products of their eras, and some of which have softened), but I also mourn the lack of immunity to conspiracy theories and propeganda on the other; I have seen almost a polar shift in one relative that really shocks me.

Just avoid the conversations. You can't change their mind.

If you're set on doing this you need to accept you may never be successful.

Also it has to be something gentle, not necessarily subtle, but compassionate. If you don't accept that they believe in their views then they will only feel attacked and lash out for defense.

As for actually changing their views, choose one or two things that you can point to in examples they can observe. Propaganda has a very hard time defeating our own eyes and ears. I don't even know which country you're in so you'll have to figure that out for yourself.

Another way to change their views is to get them to volunteer with organizations that help people down on their luck. A lot of times, just hearing the stories of how people ended up in need of help can change attitudes.

I have conservative parents. I'm hoping it will personally affect their lives enough that they understand how ignorant and irrational they're being.

Tell them what you think and then cut them out of your life. That is what I have done. Fuck their nonsense.

Books or audio books on the subject of cults and conspiracy theories help to both understand this and eventually know what to do about it.

Unfortunately, you arguing with them about it most likely did only damage and no good. Stop. It will only make your parents more right wing (and you left) then drive you both crazy.

Here is a good place to start if you like: Hivemind by A.Montell Cultish BA S.cavanagh

Hit me up if you want more. But it's a complicated subject that can't be explained in a short lemmy post. If you want any other advice, OP, eatsomeveggies.

You don't owe your parents anything. Cut them out of your life entirely if you need to and are able to. Otherwise either keep standing your ground and try to keep converting them, or just make it clear that you won't discuss politics.

Both your parents sound slightly worse than my dad, who I went no-contact with for several years

Well, one of mine died and it turns out the other one turned Trumper because she had developed dementia so I don't hold it against her.

Have you tried that?

Are they, especially your mom, different in person?

I have this one aunt who will hold forth in any crowd, insisting on whatever conspiracy theory she read on Facebook most recently. It’s tiring to the point that most of my adult life I’ve avoided her at family get togethers. But last time I saw her, just before pandemic, we happened into conversation away from everyone else. She came across lucid, intelligent, and we had a good conversation. wtf? Where has all that been?

My therapist made a really great point when I brought up this exact issue with him. He asked if I value a relationship with my parents, and I said yes. Then he said that the price you have to pay for having a relationship with them, is never discussing politics.

It worked for a year or so, but then they voted for that rapist again, and I've since cut them out of my life. I'm not walking around on the eggshells of their bigotry and ignorance just so I can get some semblance of what some may describe as affection. You can only say/do so many shitty terrible things before I'm just done with you completely, and they hit their limit, so it was time to cash out.

Sorry, my advice of ignoring politics only works for a little while.

OMG

I was born in PRC, and I immigrated to the US along with my family. They just look at WeChat all day, and regurgitate CCP propaganda, and also pro-maga propaganda which is kinda an interesting combo of propagandas, considering how maga is always anti-China. Keeps blaming Democrats for the "migrant crisis" like BRUH we are immigrants 🤦‍♂️.

They left for economic (and to some degree political) reasons. Its fucking hard to get a job in mainland China, like theres 1.4 billion people ye know what I mean. And there's no unions, no strikes, no workplace safety, no labor rights.

Yea they look at their current Union job in the US and still be like: "China wasn't that bad"

Also funny thing is: I was the second child to be born in my family... during the One Child Policy... 👀

So I was not supposed to be born, my parents violated CCP policy, and they would've killed me (as in a forced abortion) if they found me, so my mother had to hide until I was born, but even then, I didn't have legal documents (like birth certificates) until they paid a massive fine.

AND THEY ARE STILL SYMPATHETIC TO THE CCP 🤦‍♂️

Gee, thanks mom, guess if you love CCP so much, just let them take you away and force an abortion? At least I wouldn't have to deal with this fucked up world.

Like, that's my best argument against them every time they bring up pro-CCP views, I'd just be like (in Cantonese, obviously): "So you agree they should've killed me? Why didn't you just let them then?" that shuts them up every time.

I mean, this world is so bizzare, I feel like I'm on some Truman Show and everyone is just messing with me

Ghost them as soon as possible and leave the country and naturalise elsewhere if possible

There is a way to deradicalize people. It's not easy, but it's possible. I'm surprised this isn't more common information now, but here it is.

You need to understand that each of us builds our beliefs on a set of ideological structures. We believe in policies because of principles. We believe in principles because of foundations. All of these ideas reinforce each other and create our sense of self. Preservation of the self is the highest imperative, and so people resist persuasion with increasing ferocity the more foundational an idea feels to their sense of self.

The way around this is to convince them that their foundational beliefs support a different concept. In many ways, it's actually a bit like the premise of the Christopher Nolan film "Inception" without the technology: the person needs to essentially feel like they themselves discovered whatever idea you're trying to convince them of, based on their existing beliefs.

This means first understanding what their core beliefs are and why they feel that these support the policies and identies you're trying to change. Then you need to identify what can serve as a replacement, and find a way to get them to see the replacement as more appealing.

To put this into practice, can you tell me what you'd describe as their underlying principles? What are their fears and desires that shape their values? Common examples for conservatives include fear of change; a belief that life is a ruthless zero-sum game, and that we all most look out for our tribe or we will be exploited and subjugated by our adversaries. Conviction that tradition is a guide to keep us safe from reckless thinking, and that prescribed social roles and hierarchies are essential for our very survival.

If that's the case, you can't argue for progressivism by trying to convince them that we should all just love each other and welcome immigrants and that gender and sexual freedom are socially good. It's like trying to talk them into jumping off a bridge. Instead, you need to explain how if you want to look out for yourself and your family, you should do it in a different way. And these politicians who sound so convincing are secretly the kind of people that they already don't trust.

Keep in mind that replacing their faith in these kinds of leaders with your preferred political leaders is likely folly. People don't invert their ideological identities. You need a replacement that is a good match, and because politics are often polar, a better substitute for dangerous political attachments are often simply outside of politics entirely. This may be non-partisan faith communities or sports teams or local social clubs. But if you can find a new story that fits into their existing theory of the world and satisfies their ideological needs better than right-wing politics, you CAN get people to slowly stop watching YouTube conspiracy videos or stop spending their time in far-right Facebook groups in favor of something healthier.

All of this is hard to do, but it CAN be done. I find it very frustrating that this info is still somehow obscure considering how essential it is these days.

I think a psychologist would say that if you really can't find common ground, it's best to agree not to talk about it.

Indoctrination is highly effective. Your parents were raised in a place where toeing the line is the norm and questioning those in power is traditionally a great way to ensure you disappear. Russians are deeply indoctrinated when compared to western nations because that's how their society has been set up since 1922. The Soviet leadership ruled by suppressing any dissent, violently and without remorse. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists, doesn't mean their ways of doing things disappeared too.

The only way to change them would be to engage in an equally sophisticated program of indoctrination: deprogramming as it's called. Since you lack the resources of the Soviet Union, it would be a much more difficult task, especially since your parents are now older and their brains are less changeable. They were indoctrinated as children and by a very prolific system. Reversing that now, by yourself, is a tall order.

I'm sorry your parents were failed by their leadership, it's truly a shame.

Think about attending the funerals if you need the closure but you're under no obligation.

Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?

Yes. I thought that was obvious, when have you ever seen children being able to convert their parents?

When I was younger, I would have argued till I was blue in the face. I've since learned to choose my battles and not waste my time and energy on battles I know I can't win... so I'd leave it alone as much as they allowed it, and eventually refuse to discuss it at all if needed.

No contact

I gave up on my mother after she voted for Trump this past election. I had been accommodating her terrible beliefs by instating a "no politics" rule in 2020. But her helping him back into office again is too much. I have friends who he wants to harm and that's not acceptable to me.

My parents immigrated from "communist" Poland years ago and had similar conservative views. Abortion bad, church good, black people lazy, etc... It took years of discussions and disagreement to get them to think in a more progressive way, and yes, having siblings helps. And if you can convince one parent, they can help you convince the other.

I truly believe that art is one of the best ways to alter the way people think. I found that watching movies/documentaries with my parents that had strong ecological and humanitarion viewpoints were a great way to start these discussions. Movies about topics like systemic racism, homophobia, corporate greed/fraud, environmental destruction, religious abuse, etc...

For example, the Netflix documentary '13th' have real insight into how the systemic racism uses poverty to keep marginalized people poor and desperate enough to commit crimes. Which are then blamed on their skin color rather than their on economic situation.

Get away from them as soon as its feasible.