Ask Lemmy

I believe ACAB, and my cousin is actively trying to become a state trooper.

Doesn't mean I walk up and spit in his face at every family gathering. We talk, we grew up together, we shoot the shit and have a good time.

But if he asked me to condone or celebrate his job? Nah, he knows how I feel about the police and their profession, as long as he's safe and not drinking the Kool aid (he will) that's all I can hope. And that maybe he'll open his eyes someday. 🤷‍♀️

As a hard rule, though, I won't date cops or mess around with them. One reached out on a dating app recently and I just politely responded with "I'm not interested in law enforcement, sorry" to which I got "Uh, I'm actually a correctional officer."

Cool, so you abuse people after the police have finished abusing them, that's not the brag you think it is.

Develop a more complex and articulated theory of the problems with American policing than “ACAB”. That’s a four word model of reality.

Shit’s complex.

First of all, I find your phrasing that he "is/was" a cop kind of interesting. Is he a cop or is he not? If he was but is no longer a cop, it could very well be that he left that career because he shares some of your same thoughts and feelings and you're getting yourself worked up over nothing.

Anyway

To me, ACAB means that all cops are bastards collectively

It does not mean that each individual cop is a bastard.

There are undoubtedly some cops that are good people, doing their damnedest to do the right thing, standing up for the little guy against the bastards, who are trying to make the system better from the inside, who understand the role that policing should be, etc.

And there are of course some who are bastards, who abuse their power and do all of the things that make policing shitty.

And there are cops who aren't actively bastards themselves, but also aren't doing anything to make waves and stand up against the bastards.

It's a case of a few rotten apples spoiling the bunch. The apple barrel has a couple absolutely amazing apples in there that are everything you could ever want from an apple, a whole bunch of meh run-of-the-mill grocery store apples, that do the job of being an apple well enough, but aren't going to make you stand up and say "holy shit, that's a good fucking apple," and then there's a handful of rotten apples that will make you puke your guts up, and unfortunately you don't get to pick and choose which apple you're eating, you just have to reach in blind and take a bite, and since those rotten apples are in there, it's a pretty big gamble to make, you have to really need that apple for it to be worth it.

However, entering into a friendship is different than other interactions you'd have with the police. You get a chance to inspect the apple before you eat it, to see if it's good, ok, or rotten to the core.

I'd say don't dismiss him outright because he's a cop, but try to feel him out, see what his attitude and philosophy is like, don't grill him on it, but take note of how he reacts when different subjects are brought up, and if you find something problematic with what he says, try to explain how your views are different in a non-confrontational way, don't make it a fight or an argument or a debate, just try to explain your thoughts and feelings and try to understand why he thinks the way he does as well. With the right people around him, it's possible that you could help make him or keep him a good cop when otherwise he might go bad, it's up to you if you want to take on that task.

ACAB is about defaulting to thinking of them as bad guys and enemies until proven otherwise. This new friend of yours has proven otherwise, why you so hung up on it. The world isn't black and white, there's all kinds of shades in between and it's not even a linear scale. Have some nuance in your morals and ethics.

It sounds like you are the kind of person that can't comprehend empathy and stepping into other persons shoes. If something doesn't happen to you you're sticking to pre canned ideas you heard repeated often enough.

What did you expect, that a cop would show up to a friendly meeting and bully everyone there? That's not what makes ACAB. it's the fact that s significant portion of them beat wifes, or use deadly force, or are unfair to minorities.

You're already going into the mode " he treats me ok so he must be nice to everybody". Ask him if he'd turn a blind eye if a homeless person steals food from a big supermarket, and you'll have a chance of glimpsing how he deals with problems and people on a non friendly, stressful, low stakes environment.

I genuinely believe ACAB, and this news has me conflicted because my new friend seems really cool and super nice.

What you’re experiencing is cognitive dissonance. New information is clashing with your prior beliefs, leaving you with a choice: either update your beliefs or double down and lie to yourself even harder.

All cops means ALL COPS. I've known friends & family who are great people. Loving fathers, caring husbands, cool dudes all around, but they were none the less cops. If you want to still be friends, great, unless you're discussing potentially incriminating stuff, you're probably fine (but even then there are damn good reasons lawyers tell people, innocent or not, to NEVER EVER TALK TO COPS EVER). This is the kinda thing where a relationship must nessisarily be different from the rest of the group, for the safety of yourselves & others. Don't rat out your friend who's got a hungry newborn & no money for babyfood, for instance. Maybe this difference is for the better, maybe for the worse, that's yours to work out.

All Cops Are Bastards, not nessisarily because they, themselves, as individuals, are bastards. But because of the job itself. What it expects of these people, the mentalities/ideas/trained responses it instills in them, the training & culture, what is expected of them, their responsibilities & tasks, how they are conditioned to perform them, the laws they are paid to enforce & how they're made to enforce them, etc. All of these make them a bastard same as any other cop because THE JOB ITSELF IS A BASTARD.

I won't describe how, there's plenty of info out there, & it sounds like you already have some understanding of it. Here's a link or two anyway.

Bottom line, they can still be a friend. Definitely a different kind of friend than you might be used to, possibly not as close a friend as they might otherwise be, but still a friend. But until they get that pink slip, (i.e, get fired or quit) be careful. If not for yourself, than for the people around you who are vulnerable. People of color, women, homeless, mentally ill or different, queer, activist, even those they are closest to, all of the above & more qualify as such. The power he wields has been used constantly to frustrate the lives of the above since their badge was made of silver, & likely will be for some time to come.

All Cops Are Bastards, because the job itself is.

Perhaps you should get to know your friend better, instead of stereotyping him. You can either learn a little about the nuances of a law enforcement career from him, or shun him and put your head back in the sand

Seems like maybe reality is at odds with a generalization. Maybe every cop is not a bastard, every landlord is not an oppressive monster, and every person who makes more money than you is not a net drain on society.

Maybe you have just discovered something rare and elusive: nuance.

This post reads like a lefty caricature by someone hard right, esp the last sentence.

Idk add some nuance into your life maybe

Can you separate the profession from the person?

Does ACAB mean the people are bastards, or does it mean it’s a job that can never be done ethically?

Is ACAB a critique of the people doing the job, or is it a criticism of our society for tolerating being policed?

Talk to him and if he turns out to be a douche then stop and tell him to fuck off. NGL The Chance for him being a douche is higher because of his Job, but maybe he is not.

My sister-in-law, a cop, married a cop. She also moonlights as a paramedic and fireman, but he does the investigative shit and comes home to his kids. Every now and then we hear of some bad news out their way and wait nervously until they get home.

She's a sweetheart and he's a great guy, funny as the comic actor he looks amazingly like. That's about it.

But I cheat: in Canada you don't become a Mountie because there's no other choice, but for the naive and noble desire to do good things. And they're paid low, accordingly. Maybe that attracts fewer scumbags? The ones I know from here and there are - except for the one fucking pedant - great humans.

The comments that say give them a chance? Not me.

This is just personal experience.

My college friend and I, both big into paintball, went our separate ways. Met up with him a few years ago, and he apparently joined the police for and was a serious boot licker. Extremely twitchy, constantly talking about danger. He then, as a plainclothes civilian with a badge, went up to harass some teens who weren't doing anything. Maybe he wanted to look tough? Either way, an absolute asshole.

My other friend decided to give a chance to a guy on tinder who was a cop. The guy was pretty cool when I hung out with him. He even played Yu-Gi-Oh and we made lots of nerd anime jokes. A few months later, she's calling me because he choked her. The break-up wasn't just messy. She physically had to take down all of her social media and move across the country. He kept going back and forth to bring incredibly nice to me, to then backhanded threatening me.

ACAB.

Yeah. Don't be a prejudiced asshole and see your friend for who they are. Being a cop is something they do, not something they are. Don't let hate infect you just because it's on your own side of the line.

ACAB is cops as a collective. Like, your friend may be a great person when not at work. And may even be 'one of the good ones' when on the clock.

That doesn't mean he's going to testify against a fellow officer that he sees planting drugs on a suspect.

Up to you if that's someone you want to hang around with. But I will say there's a lot of other moral grey areas when it comes to professions in our culture.

I have people in my friends group that are landlords. I don't make it a point to hang out with them, but I don't shun them either.

Its never the people, its a system. Currently we have a system that allows for unqualified and even violent people in the police force, with little accountability. There are still those who join in good faith to serve and protect their community. Unfortunately it seems like they are becoming a slimmer and slimmer minority, but they are still prominent.

I wouldn't mindlessly hate your local police force until ypu have a reason to hate them. Police aren't some hivemind. I live in a small town and the local police are super chill.