this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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Summary

Tesla replaced many laid-off U.S. workers with foreign H-1B visa holders after a 2024 wave of layoffs affecting 15,000 employees.

These visas, tied to employer sponsorship, often lower compensation and give employers significant leverage over workers.

Critics argue this displaces U.S. employees, as senior engineers were replaced by lower-paid junior engineers.

CEO Elon Musk, while advocating for expanding H-1B visa caps, faces backlash, especially from conservatives, for “job-stealing” concerns.

Musk contends there’s a U.S. skill shortage, but critics highlight potential exploitation tied to Tesla’s demanding work culture and visa dependence.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 day ago

He was raised by parents who made their money on slave labour in an apartheid state, sooooo…

[–] conicalscientist 19 points 2 days ago

Is there any politician that actually stands up to tech? It's like a cheat code that not even Trump is immune to. Nobody wants to be politician who says no to those nerds who use "innovation" as a weapon. Except most of the tech industry is rather useless but everyone is too afraid to be accused of being tech illiterate. We're not losing anything by saying no to the 10000th buzzword salad tech company making yet another useless widget.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 2 days ago

Slaves. He's building an army of slaves.

[–] TankovayaDiviziya 15 points 2 days ago

If anyone has watched the first season of Squid Game, this is precisely what the show has been making a point of. Both locals and foreigners are exploited by the owner-class. That being said, does Elon watch dystopian movies and shows and actually copies them for the lols?

[–] [email protected] 57 points 2 days ago (2 children)

There is no skill shortage, the skill shortage is absolute bullshit. There is nothing you can learn in a College Classroom that they can't teach you in the field 9 out of 10 times

It is what it has always been. A desire to fill six figure positions with people willing to do them for the minimum wage. (Protip: The exchange rate exists)

[–] Mirshe 29 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not even just that, H1-Bs are about two steps shy of importing slave labor. Once you're here in the US, you have to stay continually employed. If you don't become a citizen or gain another type of visa, you get deported if you're not working for a sponsoring company for more than 30 days. Companies continually use this to ensure compliance from workers who might otherwise complain about things like working conditions or pay or long hours.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago

The American Elite considers the poor lazy because we do not work for free.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

I can't really speak for other areas, but at least in Science and Engineering what a College does that you don't get "in the field" (because it doesn't directly lead to operational results so you don't get the time to learn it) is the foundations for the work you do, so the Mathematics and the "why" certain things work as they work rather than merely the "how" to do it (or at least it did back when I got my degree 3 decades ago).

Mind you, in my experience your "9 out 10 times" point is probably right at least in what I do - Software Development - that kind of knowledge is only useful in a fraction of the work for a fraction of the people, generally the kind of developer who is a "tool maker" rather than just a "tool user" working in things which are stretching the envelope of what can be done and are innovative or unusual technically (so, not "innovative" business models, which are what most of Tech Startups do nowadays), which might actually be an even worse ratio than 1 in 10 for those people vs the general universe in even just Software Development (much less Tech in general).

I supposed that what I'm trying to say is that at least in Tech you're not going to be all that great at doing work which extends the boundaries of what is possible without the kind of foundations a good Science or Engineering degree will give you - hence there is value in such education - but the vast majority of people in even the supposedly expert positions in Tech aren't extending the boundaries of what is possible, not even close.

(In other words, I'm expanding on what you said rather than disagreeing with it)

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[–] [email protected] 145 points 3 days ago (2 children)

~~Musk contends there’s a U.S. skill shortage~~

Billionaire twat contends that he doesn't want to pay for competent employees and prefers slave labor.

Fixed that for him.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 days ago (6 children)

No such thing as a skill shortage. Pay, and they will come or the ones you have here will learn.

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[–] jaybone 71 points 3 days ago (9 children)

Isn’t this supposed to be illegal? Used to be before you could hire someone on such a visa you had to prove that there was no US employee/candidate who can do that job role. Did that change? Or we’re just letting this guy openly break the law on a massive scale?

[–] [email protected] 46 points 3 days ago

Rich people are above the law. It just doesn’t count. They make laws that have loopholes and hundreds of lawyers to make sure nothing comes of it.

Are you sick? Me too. Will we ever do something? Probably not.

[–] rayyy 30 points 3 days ago

Employing undocumented immigrants is supposed to be illegal too but there they were at Mar-a-largo.

[–] Catma 22 points 3 days ago

List jobs for pay so low no one will take it, or make standards impossible to meet, i.e. you need 5 years experience of this program that has only existed for 3. See no one in US qualifies gotta go overseas

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

That is definitely a rule that

  • a job must be advertised and,
  • DOL certification attached to every H1B application stating that
    • the foreign worker is needed to be hired due to unavailability of domestic workers
    • the minimum salary at which that job will be filled.

Additionally, when filing PERM, employers are required to prioritize domestic workers for 6 months after layoffs for the same role. Reference

But this guy is notorious for finding loopholes and sucking off any dick/teet to skirt the law so here we are.

This is not unique to Tesla either. With the job market tightening over the last 2-3 years, tech companies have been laying off experienced, higher paid workers (especially who were hired at highly competitive salaries during early pandemic) to replace them with new lower paid ones for the same role.

The article misrepresents this as a domestic vs foreign workers issue instead of calling out the employer for lying about role responsibilities and exploiting junior employees for doing the same work as was expected from senior employees in the past.

[–] randon31415 4 points 2 days ago

We put out a job listing, had thousands of applicants, didn't hire any of them, and then concluded no one in America wanted the position!

[–] b3an 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I love how they want to make America great again by yet again undercutting us. Then on top of that using foreign labor as a means to strong arm those (and really any) employees even more.

What. 👏 An. 👏 Ass. 👏 Hole. 👏 Fuck you Musk.

[–] CharlesDarwin 8 points 2 days ago

The system was built to be abused, and it's serving its purpose. It's been like this for decades.

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[–] givesomefucks 82 points 3 days ago (6 children)

These are the types of articles that really hurt trump. The ones that don't even mention him.

For too many people if you take them to that final step of logic to where it's the fault of something they like, they have an emotional reaction.

So as tempting as it is and as obvious as it seems, you gotta let people get to that last step on their own so they think it was their idea. If they think someone told them, they'll disagree out of spite.

[–] partial_accumen 38 points 3 days ago (1 children)

These are the types of articles that really hurt trump. The ones that don’t even mention him.

Why would an article on President Musk need to mention his vice president?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

We are laughing but that probably was their agreement.

trump wants to not be in prison and wants money. The president title provides first, musk provides the 2nd. musk wants power.

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[–] Tylerdurdon 50 points 3 days ago (6 children)

H1B is just corporations trying to drive down tech wages. Things is, the "skilled workers" they get from other countries are often unskilled who just learn as best they can on the job. I deal with one of the big companies that supplies these workers and the vast majority of their personnel are "bodies." You may have 1-2 fairly skilled people leading the team while the rest are folks who can follow a script if it's written well enough... Zero critical thinking or depth of knowledge.

While the short term may seem beneficial on paper, you get what you pay for. You can't fake your way without longer term problems showing up.

It's also another form of job exporting like the manufacturing jobs that corporations got rid of, and we know what that did to the US.

I'm good with a massive reduction on H1B.

[–] chiliedogg 17 points 3 days ago

They want workers who can't jumo to another company. If an H1B worker quits, they get deported.

It's about indentured servitude.

[–] ChickenLadyLovesLife 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I deal with one of the big companies that supplies these workers and the vast majority of their personnel are “bodies.”

InfoSys. My issue with these folks is that generally speaking they go into programming because it's a lucrative career, not because they have even a mild interest in it as an activity. I've encountered a few exceptions to this in my career, but they're extremely rare.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

The continued disempowerment of American unions and American worker solidarity over many decades ultimately culminates with this overt power grab by American Capitalists. Others here have rightly pointed out that these foreign workers are fleeing their own capitalistic nightmares (oftentimes imposed on them long ago by an imperialistic western hegemony), and thusly are not truly to blame for wanting to come to America with the prospect of making a better life for themselves and their loved ones.

Even if some of them might be aware that their coming here and taking jobs for lower wages has a negative impact on domestic labor, their impetus remains the same: escape poverty, keep your head down, fulfill your employer mandated duties, and survive.

Let's not miss the forest for the trees here. As George Carlin put it, American coorporate business owners want only one thing from their workers: obedience.

"Well we know what they want. They want OBEDIENT WORKERS! OBEDIENT WORKERS! Just smart enough to run all the machines, and do all the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs..."

The long term model for Capitalists across the globe has been to cripple the rights of workers over multiple generations if necessary.

This is because they think we deserve nothing. The fact that they provide us the means to survive is something they feel we should be grateful for. But for us to ask, nay demand, to survive with dignity? That is blasphemy to them.

In regards to dignity, they see that as little more than a business transaction. How much profit did you make them last quarter is directly equivalent to the amount of dignity they will afford you, as long as you also bend the knee and kiss the ring every day.

They look to places like China or India with their terrible working conditions and worker compliance and salivate at a future where American labor is no different. They look to those same places and lust after the crushing of political dissent and resistance movements that exist there.

This is the model they are now bringing to the people of America. And they know many of us won't stand for it, but ultimately resistance movements are not preventative, but rather palliative, giving them the advantage of the aggressor. I've always said and truly believed, "Americans will never bend the knee for a King. Never."

But obviously I was wrong, and naive. Trump is forming his monarchy. America was born out of hatred for monarchs. Yet through our own vile prejudices, hatreds, and other weaknesses, we have plagued the world over with our ideologies through war, imperialism, colonialism. I know a true nightmare is manifesting here now. All that is left for us now is to go to our respective hills, and die on them.

EDIT: wording.

[–] Death__BySnuSnu 37 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Only this time, it's real!

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[–] uberdroog 43 points 3 days ago (7 children)

I have been involved in 2 layoffs. The work did not disappear. The first time, I trained the imported / overseas staff who replaced us, and the 2nd time, I was retained to manage the contract. They did subpar work for pennies on the dollar. Everyone suffered, and nothing improved other than labor costs.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I seriously don't understand why, after over 20 years of shoddy outsourcing, anyone would ever greenlight this shit?

I mean, even from a shareholder's perspective, unless I want to sell my stocks within the next year or so, I should oppose these stunts. And since most stocks are owned by institutional investors, that are kind of interested in long term growth, this should be a no brainer.

[–] vanderbilt 11 points 3 days ago

unless I want to sell my stocks within the next year or so

Favoring short-term gains over long-term value is exactly why this happens. Labor is often one of the largest cost centers in business, so shaving 10% off could potentially save millions in the short-term. Who cares if those gains eventually get offset or even eclipsed by losses in efficiency or innovation? I can just dump the stock/short it and leave someone else holding the bag.

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[–] NABDad 42 points 3 days ago (2 children)

A company that lays off workers should be banned from hiring H1B workers for 10 years.

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[–] ChlkDstTtr 39 points 3 days ago (6 children)

While there are obvious benefits to bringing skilled workers into the US, people are divided on the issue because those workers are often paid less than US workers, putting negative pressure on compensation, especially in the tech industry, on top of the moral questions about holding visas over the heads of foreign workers.

This is a good summary of H-1B issues. I don’t think they’re bad in principle since bringing in talent is great for the economy, but in practice they can be abused and push down wages of American workers.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 3 days ago

Which all comes from the temporary and restrictive nature of the visa. They’re tied to a specific employer and must leave the country if their employment with that company ends (or set up another visa with another company in a very short time).

If these people represent deficiencies in our country’s skill set, then we should be welcoming them with open arms not locking them into an exploitative indentured servitude.

Of course, removing the strong tie to a specific sponsoring employer would let them leave the company for more competitive pay and work environment, which makes the whole thing less appealing to companies. It’s also at odds with the idea of the visa serving to bring in extraordinary talent not available in the country. Needing extraordinary talent and skimping on pay don’t exactly go hand in hand.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Google has been doing the same. Hell, I reckon most big corps have

[–] clockwork_octopus 27 points 3 days ago (1 children)

It feels like exploitation because it is

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[–] HurlingDurling 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So much for make America great again...

This was sarcasm if anyone was wondering

[–] ours 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Great for billionaires. Make workers desperate, scared, docile, and cheap.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

These people and their ancestors have not paid taxes or contributed to the US in anyway. Younger people are struggling with the cost of life and now are being displaced by cheaper workers from India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/Africa who don't mind living in bad conditions and get paid unfairly.

[–] wpb 3 points 1 day ago

Are you purposefully playing the perfect rube? Exploited immigrants are not the bad guy here, the owning class is.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Their continued existence in this country is dependent on being employed. They will do what is asked of them. They have little choice.

There isn't a shortage of US skilled labor.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago
[–] Modern_medicine_isnt 14 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Expanding the program is fine, but raise the fees. A lot. If there is a real talent shortage, companies should be willing to pay it right? /s

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