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submitted 3 weeks ago by Omegamanthethird to c/news

The House on Saturday passed a $95 billion aid package that includes two long-awaited bills with $60.8 billion of Ukraine aid and $26 billion in aid to Israel.

The Ukraine bill, which passed with 311 votes in favor, 112 votes against, and one present, will now head to the Senate alongside the Israel aid bill and two others — one with aid for Taiwan and another that forces Tiktok's parent company to sell it.

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[-] [email protected] 127 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

We really need laws against these laws where they just bundle a bunch of good things with a bunch of fucking terrible things, just to get it passed.

Tiktok and Ukraine Aid are entirely different issues, and they really shouldn't be in the same fucking bill.

Further, "banning" Tiktok is going to just about as well as those "Parental Advisory: Explicit Lyrics" did in the fucking 90's. A lot of time, effort, and wasted money for barely any real-world impact.

Tiktok is already becoming unpopular, because just like with Facebook, everyone's parents want to stay cool and hip and know what the youth are up to. Now its filled with millennials like myself who are pushing out Gen Z because they don't want us shitting up their spaces. Just like we didn't want our parents/adults invading our spaces and why millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central.

[-] [email protected] 60 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

You've got many good points, and I'm not defending the Tiktok ban (or whatever technical thing it is), but counterpoint your last one:

Look what Facebook did to the boomers. Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok? Our generation has more experience with social media, granted. Still, that's part joke and part something I think about as an older, non-Tiktok millennial.

[-] deranger 26 points 3 weeks ago

Do we want to go through that again but with Millennials and Tiktok?

No, but I don’t think banning an app will solve the problem, just like banning drugs doesn’t solve that issue. We need good education so people have critical thinking skills and can make good decisions for themselves. Even if a legal method was used to address the issue, banning a specific app will do little. I think you’d have to address the algorithmic delivery of content altogether to do this.

[-] zigmus64 13 points 3 weeks ago

Can I ask what the problem is? I was of the understanding that the problem with TikTok was that they basically lied under oath to congress and were actively sending personal user data to China. Not sure anything but an outright ban will achieve any sort of remedy.

[-] jumjummy 13 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yes, Tik Tok is as bad as any other social media PLUS it’s directly controlled by a hostile nation state to the US. It should absolutely be banned and/or completely divested from China.

Anyone saying this is unfair, go to China and see what their blocks look like for Western companies.

Tik Tok is a terrible platform allowing such direct access to US citizens to a foreign government.

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[-] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago

Again, wasn't defending the ban. Just addressing the other elephant in the room. :)

But yes, agreed. Critical thinking and media literacy skills are key.

[-] kaitco 36 points 3 weeks ago

While I do agree on including “unrelated” things together, these all sound like they are separate bills in this case.

Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan are all separate bills for “foreign aid”. The article isn’t 100% clear, but TikTok sounds like there is some separation. The reason I think they’re separate is that the article mentioned that they voted on each item, meaning that there’s at least 3-4 different votes.

It’s all the game of politics. “Shake my hand and I’ll shake yours” stuff, and Johnson, regardless of his overall beliefs, seems like he’s well-versed in the game.

If banning TikTok, as inane as that is, ensures we continue to aid Ukraine, then fine, ban it. eye roll

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

[-] [email protected] 29 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

Thank you for actually understanding that there is nuance to all of this. The people screeching about it are rightfully upset, but they seem to completely miss the point that all of these aid packages have to make it through a highly dysfunctional congress.

[-] alilbee 13 points 3 weeks ago

They just do not understand political capital. Very common problem with populists.

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[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Israel, however, is the matter of getting enough of Rs to vote Yea to outweigh the Maggots. I don’t like it, but the feds spend billions of dollars on tons of stuff I dislike. If allowing a continued genocide in one country means that the same won’t happen in two others…(sigh)

And it's not as if a lack of funding would stop them anyway. It's largely symbolic and to ensure Israel keeps buying American.

[-] takeda 27 points 3 weeks ago

I agree on keeping bills separate, but you seem to be confused. Tiktok wasn't in the same bill, the help for Ukraine, Taiwan and Israel was bundled together.

The reason for it was that the current speaker actually wanted help for Israel and Taiwan but was holding the bill because of Ukraine, which his orange friend doesn't support.

This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?

It was because two Republicans threatened to resign, leaving Democrats in majority and getting speakership (I wish that outcome would actually happened).

So he brought those bills to vote, but he split the bills. Because of it, now they have to go back to Senate, adding another unnecessary delay.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is why it was held. Why the speaker had a sudden change of heart?

nah, it was:

Mr. Johnson attributed his turnabout in part to the intelligence briefings he received, a striking assertion from a leader of a party that has embraced former President Donald J. Trump’s deep mistrust of the intelligence community. Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/21/us/politics/mike-johnson-turnaround.html

In some ways, a bit scary that what they told him really convinced him so readily. On the other hand I'm glad he was able to turn down local US politics (something I don't feel Republicans have been doing recently) and focus on external politics.

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[-] Ranvier 16 points 3 weeks ago

While I agree with you in general, this is not what happened in this case.

The House voted on the four bills in succession, one day after a rare and extraordinary bipartisan coalition teed up the votes, with more Democrats (165) than Republicans (151) voting for the “rule” to proceed to the measures.

There was roughly speaking the Ukraine bill, the Israel bill, the Taiwan and other aid bill, and the tik tok bill. All separately passed. Ukraine funding was not on the same bill passed as the TikTok thing today.

Combining issues in bills isn't always bad and can be a vehicle toward compromise too. Separating things can even be a way of killing a bill. There are pros and cons, really depends on the situation.

[-] Lemminary 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

millennials bailed on Facebook when it became Boomer central

I get your point, but it wasn't everyone's reason for leaving. For example, I enjoyed having my family members on the same platform as me, but I actually left because of the shit moderation team that punishes the good people and praises the terrible ones. Resentment grows when you're punished over some bullshit arbitrary reason because a mod with an agenda got some bullshit report.

Sorry for the tangent to your main points, but social media has bigger problems than one group invading another.

[-] OutsizedWalrus 6 points 3 weeks ago

This is how politics gets done at this level. I give you something, you give me something.

Even if bills were separated, there’d just be back room agreements to combine them informally.

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[-] fox2263 119 points 3 weeks ago

Why does Israel need aid? To help them invade someone more?

[-] crossover 39 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

The realpolitik answer is that they’re the only country in the region with highly functioning western-style market economy. That is valuable to other functioning western style market economies. Its a system trying to help itself propagate.

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[-] psycho_driver 34 points 3 weeks ago

They need the moneys to genocide harder, better, faster, stronger.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 3 weeks ago

Wowowow, keep Daft Punk out of this

[-] Viking_Hippie 19 points 3 weeks ago

But how can we when the Israeli apartheid regime is trying to take their shitshow around the world around the WORld?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

I guess shells are in high demand, currently. I don't expect much but I hope the Senate votes it down or removes the majority of the Israel aid package. Currently it's about 12 Billion USD worth of various support in addition to 14 Billion "Unconditional Military Support" while dealing with Iran.

If I had to rationalize it, I expect they simply want to give the bare minimum to avoid requiring sending soldiers to invade Iran directly. In my opinion, we'd be justified to "invade" Israel and oust the Netanyahu administration, solving the entire problem a lot cheaper.

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[-] danekrae 113 points 3 weeks ago

Poor Israel can barely afford to murder children anymore.

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[-] cabron_offsets 105 points 3 weeks ago
[-] [email protected] 54 points 3 weeks ago
[-] FlyingSquid 31 points 3 weeks ago

"Fuck the House" would be a good name for a casino heist movie if movies could have 'fuck' in the title.

[-] Viking_Hippie 17 points 3 weeks ago

Movies can have a little bit of fuck in the title, as a treat.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago

Mum: We have fuck at home

Home: Heck

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[-] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago

And my axe!

No! Wait! (Lengthy pause)

Use the axe to fuck the house, Israel AND the Orcs! Much better plan.

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[-] [email protected] 57 points 3 weeks ago

Should be 86.8 bil to Ukraine and 0 to the terrorist organisation of Isreal

[-] billiam0202 50 points 3 weeks ago

"Can't" afford universal healthcare, and "can't" afford student debt relief, but we sure can magic up money for killing!

[-] [email protected] 33 points 3 weeks ago

The US government spends more per capita in healthcare than any country with universal healthcare and then a big chunk of the population also pays for private health insurance over that.

It's not about not being able to afford it, it would even be cheaper.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 3 weeks ago

That's just the efficiency of the free market. It's certainly efficient at something, just not delivering quality health care or keeping costs down.

[-] billiam0202 6 points 3 weeks ago

That's why I put can't in quotes. We obviously can (because, as you pointed out, we already do) but there's a minority of Americans wielding outsized amounts of power keeping it from happening.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

I'm sure 90% of the actual value of that money won't go to killing. It's gonna be going to military contractor profits. So 10% is going to production and transport of the killing tools. The rest is shareholder pool parties and yachts. It's still not healthcare. It's still pretty bad. But hey, at least a small part of it will stop some people getting raped by Russian invaders.

[-] billiam0202 9 points 3 weeks ago

Oh don't get me wrong, we should be doing far more to help Ukraine. It's just frustrating to hear about all the things we "can't" afford and how we can't raise the debt, yet have some magical well full of unlimited money when it comes to military spending.

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago

TBF, funding towards anti-air systems like shooting down drones is kind of the opposite of killing. But yeah, Fuck Israel.

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[-] [email protected] 40 points 3 weeks ago

and another that forces Tiktok’s parent company to sell it.

Capitalists never play fair, lol.

Can't wait to see some stupid western company take the place of tiktok then all the retards complaining about tiktok suddenly shutting up.

They don't realize there's a trade war going on and they're just useful idiots in it.

[-] [email protected] 49 points 3 weeks ago

TikTok is cancer regardless of who owns it.

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[-] Maggoty 21 points 3 weeks ago

Nah. I don't think Bytedance sells. The big enchilada is the source code and that's not getting sold because there's 6 Billion more people they can get on the app.

[-] chiliedogg 7 points 3 weeks ago

There are several right-wing groups eager to buy it, which is 100% why they're going after it.

Reddit, Twitter, TikTok, and Facebook. They're going to control all of it soon.

Din they'll be requiring expensive identity verification for online accounts to make the fediverse financially unsustainable.

[-] [email protected] 31 points 3 weeks ago

I wonder if Orange Julius Caesar will be getting an aggrieved call from Pootin....

[-] homesweethomeMrL 20 points 3 weeks ago

Ahead of the vote, former President Donald Trump issued a confusing statement that sympathized with both the pro- and anti-Ukraine aid factions of the GOP without taking a clear position.

very much. more and more.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 3 weeks ago

That guy still wasn't fired?

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this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2024
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