Research found drinking even a small amount of alcohol before bed can adversely affect sleep quality. People who do not get enough REM sleep can experience emotional problems. : science

[–] [email protected] 64 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Recovered alcoholic since 2017.

One of the trippiest parts about getting sober was experiencing something called "REM rebound" where you dream intensely and vividly all night long, night after night. The way it was explained to me is that alcohol inhibits REM sleep to such a degree that it's like it has to catch up for lost time. It's exhausting but also an interesting experience, I'll say that much.

It took quite some time to feel like I got a restful sleep, but oh man, what a difference when I did! Reflecting on my drunken decade, I don't think I knew what a good night's sleep was. I felt like I was sleeping, but it's more like I was passing out from alcohol overdose day after day. It's no wonder I was constantly depressed and suicidal all those years.

That and the "pink cloud" phase (which I wish could've lasted forever) were the most interesting parts about becoming sober.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is very interesting, and thank you for sharing your story. I am unfamiliar with the “pink cloud” phase; do you mind elaborating?

[–] [email protected] 36 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Not at all. I don't know the exact mechanism, but a lot of people experience a period of intense unbridled happiness while becoming sober. It only lasts a couple of weeks to a month, but it's so great when it happens. I'd dance by myself listening to music and just be happy as a kid on a snow day. Some people have described it as having "rainbows shooting out your asshole." I wish I could feel like that all the time.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That sounds amazing; it’s unfortunate that you have to go through hell first. About how long after being sober does it occur? Or does it differ between people and how much alcohol they consumed regularly beforehand?

And congrats on staying sober for so long! That’s a huge accomplishment and you should be proud of yourself!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Thanks! And I'm not sure to be honest. I never heard of it until I mentioned in AA how happy I'd been feeling lately. I'd say it was maybe 4 weeks into my sobriety? But as with a lot of things, I'm sure it can vary wildly.

I was pretty deep in, and I couldn't afford the medical support I should have had because I lost my career and I was also legally forbidden to drink alcohol for one year. It got so much easier after the first year and a half to two years, but I still remind myself every day that I'm choosing not to drink because anyone can easily become an addict or alcoholic.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Thank you so much for sharing your experience, and I wish you the best of luck in the future!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago

Thank you so much

[–] fishos 7 points 10 months ago

It's like your receptors lighting back up and realizing that they can experience all of this unbridled and uninhibited again. That feeling of "the joy is coming from inside!". Personally, it's like your body waking back up and coming out of a deep fog.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Marijuana also hampers REM sleep, so daily smokers experience the same thing when they take a T break or get sober. I'd be interested to see a similar study for weed, especially since it's marketed as a sleep aid

[–] WhiteOakBayou 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm a generally habitual pot smoker who has long periods of sobriety due to switching jobs or a few times to support my wife during her pregnancies and I can say that without fail about a week after I stop cannabis I start having super intense dreams for about two weeks then normal dreams after that. When I go back to smoking, I stop dreaming after around a week of use. My sleep quality generally increases without cannabis but I do have ptsd associated nightmares, sweating, yelling etc. Cannabis completely stops my dreaming but I need like 9 or 10 hours of sleep to feel as rested as I do with 6 hrs sober.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

My husband uses weed for the same exact reason as you, and we've noticed this as well. He needs a few more hours of sleep to feel rested, but the fact that he is sleeping peacefully without the horrible nightmares makes me so happy. He tried so many different things for so many years, but getting his medical card has been a game changer.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes, and oddly enough in my husband's case, I feel like that's helped him immensely with his PTSD induced nightmares so much, with fewer nasty side effects than what he was taking before. His provider even mentioned that it would likely help with the dreams when she helped him get his medical card. Probably less than ideal for the general smoker, though!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, I suffer with PTSD as well as chronic pain and fatigue and other issues, so good sleep has not been on my cards for a long while - I have trouble getting to sleep and don't sleep well when I do. Weed helps ease some of that which in itself makes sleep a little more attainable, as well as helping me get to sleep (and eat, and not sink too far in to dark places).
I'll take that trade off..

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Exactly, and you shouldn't feel bad about it. In my opinion, it's a balancing act to achieve a better QoL. Ibuprofen has certain risks, but I damn well take one when I have a migraine!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Exactly.. And I don't feel bad but many others do and definitely shouldn't. Though I can't lie, headlines like these are frustrating, because I'm probably never going to have good sleep. Constantly learning about all the damage and extra risk lack of/bad sleep (or stress! 🙄🤦‍♀️) brings for so many other illnesses becomes old fast..

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

I know what you mean, but sometimes you got to do the best you can for now. It's better than the alternative, right? And maybe a better alternative will come along.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

I have heard this many times but it gives me awful, vivid dreams, and consistently.

[–] HeapOfDogs 2 points 10 months ago

It varies person to person but yes (personal experience)

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[–] kahjtheundedicated 28 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I drink very little, usually only one or two beers a week. But on the rare occasion I have a couple drinks with friends late at night, I sleep like a baby. I feel well rested after only 4-6 hours, and actually have dreams almost every time. Which doesn't happen most nights without alcohol.

I find this a little alarming, as I see how that could be habit forming. But yeah, alcohol seems to drastically improve my sleep, though I haven't given this thorough testing for obvious reasons.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

As someone that likes booze a little to much, drinking helps me fall asleep easily but I personally feel much more tired when I drink. Outside of actually being able to fall asleep fast (fuck insomnia) the quality of my sleep is much worse.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I had the same reaction, rarely drink, maybe a couple every other weekend, and I sleep like a log after that. I find that beer or spirits help me sleep well, but I’ll wake up feeling like a new man after a few glasses of wine.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Similarly, I used to think that alcohol, stress and caffeine didn't bother my sleep like everyone said it would (FYI I was working 2 jobs and raising 3 highschool aged kids at the time.) I thought I was sleeping fine.

Then through a multitude of life changes, my kids grew up and I was in a far better place. I also started wearing a fitness watch that tracks sleep quality, stress, etc. Turns out I'm not a super hero, I was just exhausted and passing the fuck out and not recognizing (because I didn't have other options) how much it had effected me.

Now I rarely drink, not because there's anything wrong with it but because I have a visual record of the stress it causes my body and have come to recognize that I do actually sleep better without it. That said, as menopause is creeping up on me I've tracked hormonally related sleep challenges. After months of experimentation, 2.5-5mg indica gummy and 1mg of melatonin within the hour before bed and I typically sleep like a baby. (Melatonin by itself leaves me feeling slightly groggy for some stupid reason, but this combo balances.)

[–] PlantJam 2 points 10 months ago

Melatonin was so weird for me. Identical dosage from different brands felt wildly different, and some wildly vivid and violent nightmares.

[–] Alborlin 3 points 10 months ago

I drink may be once a quarter or 6 months . I don't remember last time drank. But when I drink ( that too only red wine a glass ) I sleep very nicely, very deeply and I feel refreshed next day, and all stress if there is any or thoughts causing disturbance are not felt at all next day

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I suspect you have that sleep mutation which allows you to feel rested after only 4-6 hours. That’s not enough sleep to be well rested even without alcohol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

it depends. if I get 4-6 hours sleep while camping I usually wake up full of energy and ready to take on the world. that said, I don't often sleep well outdoors so 4 broken hours is usually what I'd consider "a good night"

[–] AnUnusualRelic 23 points 10 months ago

So, just drink in the morning, simple.

[–] The_v 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The author of the article took bit of liberty with a "even a small amount". 0.08 BAC is around 2-3 drinks for most people depending on sex and weight. It's also legally drunk in most places.

So what the study is slowing us yet more proof why overuse of alcohol is detrimental to a person's health. The only thing interesting in this study is it shows possible evidence of the mechanism that causes the harm.

Studies have consistently shown that anything above 1-2 drinks daily or 0.04-0.06 BAC is bad for your health. As with any other drug, the correct dosage is key.

Now why the study authors decided not to include a 0.04 BAC level control in their study is beyond me. The lower dose repeatedly shows benefits in large scale population studies.

[–] PlantJam 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Can you expand on the "lower dose benefits"? I assumed that the benefits of wine were related to antioxidants in certain drinks rather than the alcohol itself.

[–] The_v 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

They originally theorized it was the antioxidants 30+ years ago. However more recent papers have shown that it's the alcohol itself that has the benefits, at the right dosage.

https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jacc.2007.04.089

Here is one of the better writups I have found on the subject.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yeah going to sleep drunk is stupid. If you have one drink while making dinner, one with dinner and one after dinner, and then go to sleep 2+ hours later, almost entirely sober, then this study has no bearing on that.

For me, even if I do binge drink a little later than is prudent, I'll stay up a bit until I start sobering up. And I definitely feel way better than when I go to bed when my body is still processing a stomach fill of alcohol.

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[–] RBWells 8 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Aperitif, not nightcap, is the way I roll. Found out a long term ago it is bad for my sleep to be even remotely buzzed, at all. I sleep sober, only. If I am having a drink it's before supper, if I miss the window I just don't, no big deal.

But I know so many people who say they sleep better with one drink at night before bed, are they all wrong?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (5 children)

are they all wrong?

I've always heard so many people talk about how epic their sleep and dreams are after quitting alcohol OR weed, people who never quit or take a break would just never know.

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[–] JustZ 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Yes.

[–] kofe 6 points 10 months ago

Wild that you're being down voted, the study literally discusses this and there's plenty of others. My ex is an alcoholic and would claim it helped him sleep, but I saw him get a few hours at best with high consumption, and when consumption lowered he'd sleep longer and with better quality without waking up as frequently. People claiming it helps them are lying to themselves, as is the nature of addiction.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

I've been dry for this year so far and anecdotally my sleep has slightly improved (not hugely noticeable by myself) my garmin data tells a very clear picture. drinking fucks with my heart overnight and now I have evidence (for myself)

[–] Bruncvik 7 points 10 months ago

Personal anecdote. My drinking days are long over, and now I limit my alcohol consumption to 1-2 drinks on Friday, right after work. The alcohol varies - a beer, a cider, 2 glasses of wine, or a glass of hot whiskey on particularly cold evenings. I also do a lot of fitness, so I'm monitoring my health pretty closely, in particular HRV at night, which is an amazing indicator of my sleep quality and overall health. I have a nearly perfect correlation between an evening drink and a drop of HRV into red zones, and the corresponding drop in sleep quality. The effect of the drink is so strong that I skip it altogether if I plan on having a long hard run the next day.

[–] Seudo 7 points 10 months ago

So can looking at screens. And temperature. And eating spicy food. And...

[–] mayo 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Loads of anti-science types in this community.

Just take it for what it's worth instead of offering your reason of why the study can't possibly be of any use to anyone.

OH MAN am I looking forward to the day I quit social media for good.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Sorry to detract a bit, though in what ways could this be compared to effects with cannabis (since cannabis has been known to cause the user to skip REM or a great deal of it)?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Having a drink before going to sleep at 9 Is better than laying awake until 2 am tossing and turning for 3 hours and getting up at 5.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Its literally a tough decision. I remember sleeping a lot better when I was still drinking alcohol, especially one or two beers to dinner.

Due to personal circumstances, my nervous system is on constant alert and years of training did get it down a bit but one bad experience makes it spike 10x.

I decided to quit because it was becoming very regular. My sleep quality has gotten a lot better since the beginning but also its been 5-6 yrs since I quit. Regular exercise and meditation did the trick.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (9 children)

Due to personal circumstances, my nervous system is on constant alert and years of training did get it down a bit but one bad experience makes it spike 10x.

Same. Just started a new job too and my shit has been going nuts. I'm not even struggling with anything my body is just freaking out for no reason. I try not to rely on alcohol to deal with it but when it's really bad sometimes that's the only thing that works and let's me level out. I will probably quit for a while after I get through the new job nerves though because I'm definitely drinking too much the last couple weeks.

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