this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2023

448 points (93.4% liked)

politics

19104 readers

3429 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

• Register To Vote

• Citizenship Resource Center

• Congressional Awards Program

• Federal Government Agencies

• Library of Congress Legislative Resources

• The White House

• U.S. House of Representatives

• U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

• News

• World News

• Business News

• Political Discussion

• Ask Politics

• Military News

• Global Politics

• Moderate Politics

• Progressive Politics

• UK Politics

• Canadian Politics

• Australian Politics

• New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

448

Trump Says Biden Plunging U.S. Into Depression. The Stock Market Hit a Record High (www.rollingstone.com)

submitted 11 months ago by CantaloupeLifestyle to c/politics

95 comments fedilink hide all child comments

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] aseriesoftubes 162 points 11 months ago (6 children)

The stock market isn’t the economy, at least as most Americans experience it, though it is the same metric that Trump and his followers used to show how “strong” the economy was during his term.

If I had a nickel for every time some Trump apologist said “sure, Trump’s a jerk, but how’s your 401(k)?” during 2017-2021, I’d have… a lot of nickels.

[–] SinningStromgald 60 points 11 months ago (7 children)

“sure, Trump’s a jerk, but how’s your 401(k)?”

Total shit like always. 401ks are poor substitutes for pensions or ya know social security that's actually worth something, since I don't think it will exist when I can retire.

[–] silverbax 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

401Ks, in general, are a terrible substitute for pensions and social security. The GOP wanted to push Americans' retirement funds into the stock market, and they did that with 401Ks.

I ran some basic analysis a few weeks ago, and even with the corporate matching on 401Ks, due to the poor fund investment options available in most 401Ks, they underperformed index funds over a 30 year period.

Yes, that means many people who contributed to their 401K at full amount, even with matching, have less money than someone who just invested in SPY or VOO over the same period.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Financial vehicles for retirement should be relatively low risk, with that risk becoming even lower as you reach retirement age. Investing in a single stock, no matter what it is, is a high risk. Sure, you can look into the past and say "if you'd just invested in Stock X," but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

The only way you should be managing your 401K is into an index fund with low fees. That's it. Everything else is gambling.

[–] EatYouWell 6 points 11 months ago

Yup. If your 401k is consistently losing money, then you have it in the wrong investments. You should be seeing an average return of ~7%.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (3 children)

confused by your comment because my 401k contributions go directly towards index funds. are you talking specifically about target date funds, or something else?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

It's laughably obviously that this individual has zero experience with individual retirement accounts and is, in fact, making up this alleged analysis. There is no way they even have access to such data.

Target year funds will almost always underperform SPY, by design. They are broad market funds which taper into bonds over time. Either way, I have never seen a 401k which doesn't have many, many index tracking options.

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, but now the upper and middle classes future are dependent on stonks go up. Who would have guessed that all it took to disrupt class solidarity between the lower and middle class was just a little gambling?

[–] CharlesDarwin 6 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Also, there are all those management fees to be made....I'm surprised the 401K is even legal at this point. Imagine setting up a structure where huge amounts of guaranteed profits are given to an industry:

All told, the Center for American Progress estimates that a typical worker -- earning the median income and paying the average 401(k) fees over their lifetime -- will be assessed a total of $138,336 in fees. And the cost is much more severe for high-income workers, who, assuming a starting salary of $75,000 at age 25, are projected to pay an estimated $340,147 over their lifetimes, thanks to the fee structure of the average 401(k) plan.

load more comments (6 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] captainlezbian 28 points 11 months ago (3 children)

True, but also the economy was plummeting for years. I can’t think of a year Joe Biden was president that we weren’t expecting a recession by the end of it. Right now we’re looking at improvement next year. That’s what Biden’s economy is. He played a bad hand really well and we’re consistently doing better than countries with right wing leadership have been since the pandemic.

[–] EatYouWell 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

It's just the cycle. Dems get the economy healthy, then a republican comes in and trashes everything and leaves a mess for the next dem in office to fix.

The policy changes always take some time to fuck things up, so it usually happens after the republican gets ousted.

[–] Wrench 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean, the housing market is fucked for the foreseeable future because the Trump administration kept interest rates ridiculously low, well after we had recovered from the 2008 crash.

This made a bubble from businesses and individuals borrowing as much "free money" as they could because it was easy to beat the interest, even from low performing investments. Obviously, a lot of this money ended up in the real estate market, inflating the shit out of it. Then the pandemic happened, and everyone was stuck at home, wanting to upgrade, and bam, crazy inflation.

So now we're rather fucked. Prices aren't coming down because people are locked into their stupidly low interest rates and can't sell without taking a huge hit.

Big surprise that existing real estate owners saw their properties double as a direct result of economic policy, dictated by a real estate tycoon president.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

“sure, Trump’s a jerk, but how’s your 401(k)?”

Or as I like to paraphrase, "My morality is for sale"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

It's only a "depression" when the ownership class is affected.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] someguy3 51 points 11 months ago

Reality truly doesn't matter anymore. They just want to scream whatever they want to.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Says the "businessman" who bankrupted his own casinos and achieved his company wealth through fraud.

ETA: that is a very unflattering photo, holy shit.

[–] stevedidWHAT 4 points 11 months ago (1 children)

ETA?

[–] MegaUltraChicken 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Edited to add

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Confusing acronym given it already means estimated time of arrival.

[–] dragonflyteaparty 5 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Acronyms can have more than one meaning.

TLC - tender loving care

TLC - the learning channel

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (2 children)

TLC - T-Boz, Left Eye, and Chilli

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] FontMasterFlex 47 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The stock market is not a 1:1 representation of the spending power of your dollar. The stock market is how well your overlords are doing, not you, the average american.

[–] TechyDad 10 points 11 months ago (2 children)

True, but Republicans constantly tout the stock market's performance when they are in charge. Every tick upwards is declared to be thanks to them. Every dip is said to be because Democrats got in the way.

So a Democrat in charge of the White House and the stock market rising is a good refutation of their talking point. For "common man economy indications," I'd instead point to things like the extremely low unemployment rate.

[–] Ultraviolet 6 points 11 months ago

They like to claim the low unemployment is somehow a bad thing. If you dig into why, it's basically because when employees are harder to replace, they're harder to exploit, so working conditions and wages improve while shareholder profits slightly decrease, and they focus entirely on the latter.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 44 points 11 months ago

trump lies about everything but the stock market has ever-decreasing relevance to the average american because it reflects the value of property and the average american is being shut out of owning anything.

[–] Burn_The_Right 37 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. Every word.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] NounsAndWords 37 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I said it during the Trump admin and I say it still. The stock market is not the economy and I don't really care how much money the top 1% owning the majority of stocks are ~~making~~ skimming.

[–] jettrscga 8 points 11 months ago

I agree, but it's still blatant lying from Trump because you know he doesn't care about that other 99% and the economy beyond the stock market.

[–] lennybird 35 points 11 months ago

By every metric they ridiculed Obama over, and praised Trump for (forget delayed-onset of policy effects from Obama), they suddenly ignore for Biden lmao.

Gas coming down, inflation rate down, stock markers up, unemployment good, et.

[–] inclementimmigrant 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Republicans have no need for facts and truth, truthiness and alternative facts are all they need and Trump's word is all of that wrapped up in a nice racist package.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Okay but it isn't for normal people. Your made up numbers have nothing to do with the average person.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago

For the average person, there is less inequality (Gini coefficient has gone down), high employment, and historic wage increases. Not saying there aren’t still lots of problems, but the economy is hands down better under Biden.

[–] dumpsterlid 8 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I love it when liberals start screaming at you about how it is misinformation that Americans think the economy isn’t doing great because stock market number good or some other economic number good.

It’s like, have you fucking talked to any human beings living in the US lately? Are you out of your mind? Life in the US is brutally hard right now. We are in the middle of a massive class war and we are losing badly, but yes the class that actually owns the economy is doing great.

Conservatives/Trump are obviously shittier choices, it just is 0% surprising that people don’t feel that happy about the stock market doing well when they can’t afford rent and the idea of owning a home is a laughable pipe dream.

[–] AA5B 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

We are in the middle of a massive class war and we are losing badly

Dude, consider some of the positives …. I’m old enough to remember Reagan union bashing by firing air traffic controllers. Now we have unions showing more strength than I’ve seen in my life. They’ve been hit hard, over and over, decade after decade, but now are standing up again. This could be the big counterattack in that class war

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] 800XL 19 points 11 months ago (4 children)

It's all president drink bleach can do - constantly forecast doom and gloom to the people who aren't happy without something to spend every waking moment worrying about.

It's a drug to them worse than heroin.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] Lemminary 18 points 11 months ago

He's always saying some bullshit, can we move on?

[–] joker125 17 points 11 months ago

I guess Trump is currently in the one in a depression phase.

[–] CharlesDarwin 13 points 11 months ago

That's donnie, really tuned into the reality of things, at least as Faux "News" portrays them.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I seem to recall the stock market doing extremely well right up to 1929...

[–] SecretSauces 20 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You remember that?! How old are you?

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

Even though my burger today was not $3.60, but was in fact $2.35. ok Trump.. you fucking idiot

[–] ArdMacha 5 points 11 months ago

The only recession risk came from some idiot who added $1trillion to the national debt in the space of 4 years.

[–] Crack0n7uesday 5 points 11 months ago

I mean the economy was good under Coolidge until it wasn't. Completely different chain of events leading up to that though.

load more comments