Ooooh. Discovery is gonna be goooooooood.
starts popping popcorn
this post was submitted on 21 Nov 2023
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The threat of discovery was what forced him to have to buy twitter in the first place.
Fool me once...
Discovery giveth
Discovery taketh away
I got mine 🍿
Truth is an absolute defense in cases like these. They admitted to the facts of the case. The testing methodology is absolutely standard. There is no way Musk can prevail.
I just wonder if this will also fall under anti-SLAPP laws, since Musk is clearly doing it to shut down public disclosure and discussion.
It would, so they chose a jurisdiction that's unrelated to any involved party but doesn't have those laws.
Texas does have anti-SLAPP laws:
The Texas Citizens Participation Act protects your rights by giving you:
Anti-SLAPP Motion to Dismiss: This motion asks the court to promptly end lawsuits that violate the Texas Citizens Participation Act.
Help paying for a lawyer: If you win your Anti-SLAPP Motion to Dismiss, the other side may have to pay your attorney's fees.
Protection: The court may impose sanctions on the other party to discourage them from filing a SLAPP lawsuit against others in the future.
Whether a judge in the northern district of Texas agrees to implement these remedies is less clear
Texas state law has it but this was filed in Federal court. There's no Federal anti-SLAPP.
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Exactly. This case likely will never make it past discovery given how much there is to lose.
Yeah, he filed this to say he filed this, to cause a chilling effect on other orgs who report on the nazis he supports on his platform.
He will fold the very instant before discovery starts, because once email/texts/chats hit the lawyers, Twitter will be burning to the ground.
as if they were what typical X users experience on the platform
The thing is that it looks like Musk is going to mount a technical defense. There's likely to be an admission that there's all kinds of Nazi crap on Twitter and that they allow it to roam free, within it's own little echo chamber. The whole "it's not what the average user experiences" tells me is that what they're going to do is cover the keywords that unlock the Nazi echo chamber and how that sequence of required words aren't in some top 5,000 search terms on the site.
I'm pretty sure the entire point will be to sow some distrust on Media Matter's manner by which they got those screenshots. Basically an argument of "Well, yeah, if you search Nazi 100,000 times and then Apple 100,000 times, we're going to absolutely show you Nazi + Apple stuff. But the number of users who have that as their search history, we here at Twitter, can count on one hand."
The idea is to not deny that it is possible to get Nazi + Apple, but to indicate that the chances of getting it are so rare that Media Matters had to know that their research was contrived. I don't think they're going to deny one ounce of what Media Matters presents to the court, I think what they're going to try and do is shift what the underlying question is on the matter. Basically, shifting it to "this happens to rarely that you just have to go out of your way to get it to happen."
Media Matters will need to keep focus on their broader topic. "X admits that such a combination can happen, they indicate that it is super rare, but there is no way that X could have calculated every permutation. Because of that, the arguments of Media Matter stand firm in that such CAN absolutely happen and X has no idea the frequency of it."
And the fact that X has filed in a very friendly to them courtroom, it's likely that the court is going to entertain the more technical merits of the case rather than the broad questions. It'll absolutely put Media Matters in a very hard position.
There is no way Musk can prevail.
First rule of any kind of litigation. Don't ever say never. Law is black and white but the people who enforce it and judge it are still fleshy emotion pods.
Musk is clearly doing it to shut down public disclosure and discussion
Oh yeah, he's absolutely doing that.
Yeah, they signaled that’s what they’re going to argue but I don’t think it matters. That’s the standard way of doing that kind of research.
Lining up with any given ad is going to be a function of the number of buys for that ad and the number of locations on a page it could be shown on. That, times the number of users will give you the ability to estimate how many times that happens.
Not having the source code or the business rules for ad picking, the only way to simulate the experiences of millions of daily users is to load the pages over and over again and see what it produces.
IBM and Apple know pretty well how Internet advertising works. They were concerned enough to pull their spends because they were guaranteed this wouldn’t happen, and then it did. It’s really as easy as putting a flag like racist=true on the ad, then having the advertisers contract allow them to opt out of racist ads.
In fact, it’s so simple and such a solved problem that the only reason it wouldn’t be working is if Elon fired the staff that oversees trust and safety and signals that it’s not a concern of twitter’s.
Which he did.
Even if he managed to hand pick his judge, he will lose on appeal. This is a SLAPP with a chilling effect, and I’ve done research on network effects using internet searches as part of the data set, and I can tell you that they followed accepted academic practice.
Musk’s sole argument will be that they didn’t say how often it happened out of how many attempts, but the breadth and variety of the documented instances shows it’s not uncommon when you’re talking about millions of daily users.
Either he knows he’s going to lose and is just doing this to get his narrative into headlines, or he’s got full blown narcissistic rage.
or he’s got full blown narcissistic rage.
You're talking about a guy who swatted the family of a Tesla whistleblower. Elon Musk is vile
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I'd never heard of anti slapp laws before. That's cool. We have them where I'm at too!
So looks like they did some judge shopping first. They’re suing a company located in DC in a Texas court with a Trump-appointed judge: https://x.com/esqueer_/status/1726762933969895771?s=46&t=EUtgwMByNj4sQbVP9INV-Q
When your "thermonuclear lawsuit" is so flimsy that you have to find a bully-friendly court first...
The whole point of conservatives stacking the courts for decades has been to reach a point when they could win with the most flimsy, immoral, and unethical of reasoning (e.g. conservative logic).
East TX courts are the go to for Republicans and companies. They are notorious for handing favorable verdicts to them. Especially on things like this.
Ugh. That's bullshit. I still hope Elon / Twitter lose. Fuck that guy.
"free-speech absolutist"
You think Apple & Disney didn't verify this for themselves before ditching Twitter?
This dumb-ass is going to be proven to be a bigot in a US court of law, isn't he?
“Media Matters knowingly and maliciously manufactured side-by-side images depicting advertisers’ posts on X Corp.’s social media platform beside Neo-Nazi and white-nationalist fringe content and then portrayed these manufactured images as if they were what typical X users experience on the platform,” the complaint filed in the US District Court for the Northern District of Texas said. “Media Matters designed both these images and its resulting media strategy to drive advertisers from the platform and destroy X Corp.”
The counter-suit for this claim is going to be 🧑🍳💋
Damn if only there was a way for bud to prevent ads from appearing next to Nazis on his platform 😆
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Ah yes, the ever-popular argument that "the problem isn't that we're a Nazi platform, the problem is that people are pointing out that we're a Nazi platform".
“Free Speech absolutist”
Translation: Everyone absolutely must listen to what I have to say and I absolutely have the right to make others shut up the fuck up so they can listen to what I have to say. It is what I call freedom!!!!
"Yes, I do absolutely love freeze peach" - Elon, probably
Shouldn’t he be alarmed and thankful? Not suing? Hmm
The call is coming from inside the empty Twitter offices.
In before Elongate Muskrat calls Media Matters a pedophile.
X has gotten so bad...any comments section it seems is full of troll farm accounts for Republican fascist ideology. Lately there have been a bunch of memes about how J6 was just a left wing hoax to make Republicans look bad. It's insane, I watched J6 unfold in disbelief on like 3 live news channels- the fact that they are claiming this is just demonstrably false. Free speech is not protected if it is hate speech, or if it is libelous, and most pertinent - if it is posted on a private company's forum, so misinformation should be labeled as such or removed. Trump has proven a lack of critical thinking skills is another pandemic in this country and they cannot be allowed to return to power.
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.”
In real time.... fucking a! George Orwell was something else.
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Can Xitter prove they didn’t serve those ads next to that content? If not I don’t see how they can win this.
Actually he released this statement admitting that it did happen, but wants us to think he’s been wronged because someone curated a feed then hit refresh a bunch of times, and only a couple of people saw it, so it doesn’t count.
And by this CNN report it sounds like he’s now misrepresenting their own findings.
Exactly. He's not saying it didn't happen but rather it's not typical.
He’s apparently saying they “manufactured images” in the lawsuit which is a weird way of describing “refreshed until our system natively generated this.”
Could be a messy enough distinction to confuse a judge or jury into thinking they were manufacturing it
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Yeah. That statement isn't doing him any good.
If 50 out of 5.5 billion were odds to win the mega jackpot lottery, sure. The chances seem insignificant and super low.
The problem is, 5.5 billion numbers are being rolled every day and 50 people out of a much smaller selection pool are going to win. So, if X has a total of 2000 advertisers that give a shit about ad placement, someone has a high chance of winning. Multiple times.
The actual odds are based off of the total number of advertisers and are only loosely based on total ad impressions. Here is what I mean: Every tweet, antisemitic or not, will be close to an ad and not all advertisers care where their ads land. If you find a Nazi, you will find an ad.
You can start doing the math about the actual distance a tweet is from an ad and stuff. Whatever.
This is the important bit: 50 out of 5.5 billion was just what Media Matters showcased and absolutely does not show the entire problem. It's much worse.
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“We think free speech is important unless that speech is being mean to us” is the biggest crybaby bullshit in the world.
That’s been his playbook since before buying Twitter.
Ok, but like, X corp? For real? Musk really leaning into the comic book villain shit he’s got going on lately.
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alleging that the group’s testing methodology was not representative of how real users experience the site.
Now all he has to proof is that somehow Media Matters has a vastly different view of X than anyone else. Good luck with that, Elon. ,-)
Elon the crybaby Nazi.
Good luck with that 🍿
Where I live, in my language/dialect we have a saying that goes like "the fifth article I call: who has got money always wins it all". As opposed to "the third article you have crossed: who hasn't got money has always lost".
The numbering "fifth" and "third" is required by the rhymes in the original proverb.
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"Compare me to fascist bigots, will they!?
I'll attack the reporting as slander, in a similar way the fascist bigots I'm being compared to do!"
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