I feel like the main takeaway is more that everyone expected dumb white people to vote Trump. No one expected the very people he's openly said he's gonna fuck over to vote for him.
this post was submitted on 30 Nov 2024
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I personally blame those on the left who didn't vote.
Democrats aren't perfect, but this was like letting a snake bite unattended because the antidote can give you headaches.
Genocide is a bit more than just "aren't perfect"
If you didn't vote to help Palestinians, I have bad news for you and for them. But hey, now Ukrainians are going to suffer too! Brilliant plan there
Blaming people for voting for Trump is the only thing stopping us from seeing that our real enemy is the 1%, the political elite, and the corporate oligarchy.
We have the same enemy as Trump voters, it’s just easier to blame our neighbor for our problems than those who should really be held accountable.
This is the exact reason why Trump voters voted for Trump, it’s easier to blame democrat voters than it is to hold the culpable to account.
Bruh stop it. The people who voted for trump who aren’t hardcore MAGA, are just as dumb as them. You guys keep talking about the “elites”. trump is promising a record low corporate tax rate and more cuts for that 1%. And voters didn’t care, because it’s culture war bs.
What is your endgame in blaming people. It won’t change anything,
It won’t convince them to come to your side or see things the way you do.
All it does is give you some sense of entitlement and superiority in that you somehow made a better decision than they did?
Blaming people for voting for Trump actually weakens your cause.
You stop.
Trump voters are laughing at you because their team won. So keep worrying about who to blame, just bend over and lower your pants while the real enemies of the people can get to doing what they do whether an R or a D is in charge.
Blaming the 1% as you mentioned gets you the same nothing burger.
The fault is in both of those groups, and also in the Democrats for such a weak platform and not connecting on a personal level to people. There is fault all around. Blaming won't solve things but it at least shows us what groups need to be worked on. It's just a starting point never the solution.
The blame lies with dnc leadership and the corporate shills. They don’t get to run the party anymore.
Blaming Kamala, blaming the 1%, blaming the corporate oligarchs is the answer.
Blaming working class voters is a the wrong answer.
Working class voters have zero culpability in the real problems that’s working families face
The blame lies with the elite ruling class, Kamala Harris, and dnc center right corporate neoliberal politicians who only listen to their donors.
Let's keep arguing about blame to distract us from the hellscape we all have to endure regardless of it. That'll help.
The party leadership is to blame. It’s pretty simple.
Period.
They don’t get to try to blame different groups of voters and then go oh let’s not blame anyone once people realize the truth, that they’ve been grifting their base this whole time.
They don’t get to be the leaders anymore.
The party doesn't cast the votes. People do. They are responsible for their decisions or lack thereof. Ignoring that is just as big an issue as ignoring the others responsible. But again, blame is only a starting point. Solutions and actions have to work to address the failings in each area. Sitting her trying to point at one group doesn't help. It's not so narrow as you are making it out to be.
Yes it is. This is a failure of Kamala and dnc leadership. If you can’t see that or think the voters share any blame then I assume you are either arguing in bad faith or don’t know what you are talking about.
It is absolutely 100 percent as simple as I am making it out to be.
I'm not arguing in bad faith. What makes you think voters hold no responsibility for their votes? Help me understand your viewpoint.
The candidate is responsible for how they run their campaign. Biden said he was a transition president who would not run a second term. He lied. The dnc chose not to have a debate or any primary.
Kamala refused to change her position on any issues her base supports. She actually embraced republicans with the lowest polling numbers in recent memory as well as literal corporate CEOs.
Meanwhile Trump was posing with beans and talking about inflation, most voters ranked economy as the number one issue.
Kamala went up like 15 points at first when she took in Walz and was talking about the economy, but then pivoted to the right and away from the economy.
This loss is hers.
Trying to shame voters into voting for your side is a losing strategy. No one cares about Hillary’s opinion.
The voters are not the problem, and…. Again… even if they are you will get no where trying to shame them into joining your side.
The fact that the next day the dems and the dnc started blaming Mexicans and blacks for their loss without accepting any blame whatsoever for their shitty campaign is telling. Especially considering supermajorities of blacks and Latino voters voted for and continue to support the dems.
The dems and dnc are lying to you. Stop blaming the voters and blame the dems and dnc leadership. Look at what Bernie wrote, he wrote two letters explaining exactly these issues.
Nothing in there negates that people need to have personal responsibility. I don't like the democratic platform, I think Harris was mid at best. But I still voted for them with reluctant gusto because the alternatives were incalculably worse. I used my personal accountability and freedom of choice.
The DNC and RNC and the people they are running all suck. Some more than others. And they are completely responsible for their portion of this equation. I don't deny that in the least. But you are framing this like they are the only controlling decision makers in this equation. The DNC or RNC didn't decide my vote. Harris didn't decide my vote. Trump didn't decide my vote. I did. And if you voted, you decided your vote. No one else. People are responsible for their choices.
The rich and powerful do their best to manipulate the unwashed masses, and this time they won. AND they won because people were irresponsible with their decisions and let themselves think that a terrible candidate was better than a mid candidate.
More than one thing is true here and that's ok. The rich and powerful that manipulated the people are at fault. The dems and DNC that ran a weak ass platform are at fault. And the voters that didn't do their due diligence and let themselves be conned are at fault.
Let's move on from the blame and shame game and move on to solutions. Like how can we get ranked choice voting? How can we ensure truthful broadcasting and news coverage? How can we educate voters? How can we remove the money from Washington? How can we change the DNC to run a better platform? How can we get out the authoritarians from both sides?
No, I will not move on. DNC and dems tried to blame black and Hispanic men before the results were even in.
DNC and dems leadership receives and deserves all of the blame, you are 100% wrong, no offense
I'm not offended. I just don't agree with you and think you're ignoring a lot of things here in order to push a singular narrow viewpoint. You're trying to absolve a whole swath of people from their responsibility and I think that's wrong and naive and unfortunately counterproductive.
Ok, have fun shouting at people how wrong they are and how enlightened your point of view is, and then when these families’ suffering continues to increase you can remind them how enlightened you are and maybe throw in a few good “I told you so’s
Why are you getting so upset over a disagreement? Are you ok? Having a bad day or something?
I had no idea that the Amish vote. I guess I just never thought of it, but I always got isolationist vibes from what I know.
There are two groups responsible: idiots and bigots.
The uneducated and the uncaring
That's what I said.
bidiots?
Bigiots, surely.
There are idiots who are not bigoted, and there are bigots who are not idiots.
While there is a great deal of overlap between these two groups, they remain distinct.
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The grossest thing about the racist recriminations over Harris' loss is that the racial group that makes up 70% of the electorate and the vast majority of Trump voters is somehow blameless, clean, and without blemish.
It seems like every minority is only as good as their latest contribution to the movement, while white liberals are always welcome to flow in and out every election cycle like a goddamn tide.
Conservatives have mocked us for decades with terms like bleeding heart and woke because they see us betraying those values at the fist sign of trouble. And they're right.
That's not what those terms mean or why they are used as insults.
And, generally speaking, a few ethnic/gender groups changed their voting strategies this election, while others didn't. The articles calling out different demographics are pointing out reality. Those shifts affected the results of the election.
That's why they are being pointed out, instead of pointing out that one group did exactly what was expected of them and what they did last time, and the time before, and the time before...
So I'd challenge you that it's not recriminations or gross, it's simply pointing out what changed and how it led to us being in our current spot. You can't fix things/change course without understanding where you are.
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Is that it? I always was confused how bleeding heart is an insult like you wanna shame people for... idk caring too much? For the wrong kind of people?
It's an insult for being to sympathetic/empathetic and soft.
Ultimately meaning that if push came to shove, a bleeding heart would be so caught up in caring that they would fail to make a tough decision.
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I see this blame of various groups, of Harris of Democrats often one contradicting the other, but almost no one is acknowledging that we are in the middle of information warfare. We saw is effects in invasion of crimes in 2014, in brexit in 2016, trump election of the same year, across elections in Europe and still very little is done about it.
When some people were asked about why they voted for trump their answers were bizarre, out of touch with reality.
Today majority of people gets the news from social media which unlike traditional MSM is much more prone to be manipulated by foreign powers. Russia especially matters it, add their active measures developed during cold war work really well with current Internet.
The blame is on politically uneducated people coming to vote based on culture war nonsense. It’s that simple, but yall love to protect these people to not hurt their feelings.
The manipulation is affecting others as well. You want to see how well it works, look how pro Russia candidate in Romania who no one knew won first round, and might win the next one.
Yeah, latinos did
If there's a single group responsible it's the Democrats.
They're trying to cast blame around because if they can pin it on anyone else then they won't have to change. The problem of course is this time around so many people from different demographics stayed home that it's hard to pin point any one group. The closest would be the Arab American group in Michigan, but they didn't actually enter the equation. Michigan always required other states to win as well.
So it's the Democrats. It turns out hugging war criminals, gaslighting the public on the economy and deriding critics as Russian Shills (Pelosi laid that one on), was not a winning strategy.
To be fair to Harris, she made an outstanding run. The problem was the systemic issues had already set in by the time she took over. The convention was already 90 percent planned, the war chest was mostly allocated, and the staff were all the ones that had been blowing smoke at Biden.
So when I say The Democrats, like a conspiracy theorist uses the word "They", I mean it. It was the party insiders who didn't tell Biden he was having trouble in 2023. It was the party insiders who pushed for support of Netanyahu. It was party insiders who couldn't properly message the victories Biden did have.
The Democrats need to have a very big reckoning in a very small window of time. And it looks like they're taking the wrong message. With hand ringing over "purity tests" and minority rights. Independent voters didn't refuse to vote Dem because of high school athletes. They just want an economy that actually works for them. That's it. After decades of loss in real wages the hierarchy of needs is down to food and shelter. They honestly do not care if the football team has to let a trans person play.
I think you are being too kind to Harris and her staff. Everything you wrote is true, in my opinion, except that she had all this information just like we did.
She could have tried to run a campaign that focused on improving life of the average American, by busting up real estate speculation, by raising the minimum wage to match the cost of living, major things like that. I don't know if that would have been enough, because we all watched her do nothing on those issues for the last 4 years, but she could have tried it. Or she could have spoken out against Biden on Israel. That would have been an interesting thing to see. I think she didn't do any of those things because she doesn't believe in them.
So she ran an honest campaign, and it wasn't good enough. We all appreciate her honesty, but it would be better to have a candidate who shares more values with the average voter.
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