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I think the real upsetting thing isn't Biden's performance, or having Biden as president for four more years. He achieved quite a bit after all. The real upsetting thing is the DNC being such cunts that they even pushed for this debate, hoping that Biden could win, only to deny and ignore Biden's abhorrent performance immediately after. That Bernie got shafted twice by them, that is the really upsetting part.
It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win. None of the shitty things that Trump wants to do will hurt them, (stupid take if they cared at all about their descendants but they’re either too arrogant or too ignorant to worry about that) but actual progressive policies that helped average people WOULD hurt their way of life. Marginally. Like, the tiniest little amount. Like, your yacht can only have one master bedroom instead of four. But why give that up when you don’t have to?
“It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”
I’m voting for Biden though, and I’ll keep voting as progressively as possible in the down ballot elections. If a progressive movement from the bottom up can start by doing things like getting rid of FPTP, we still have a chance. And to anyone thinking about not voting, please do. The president is one person. They are the single most powerful person individually, (taking aside impact on the judicial system) but the collective impact on your day to day life is far more influenced by down ballot positions. Research your down ballot candidates and vote. Many of those races are decided by only a handful of votes. Yours matters.
DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win
This was made perfectly clear in 2016 when Hillary stole the nom by colluding with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
If people haven’t caught on by now, they haven’t been paying attention. Or are just willfully ignorant.
I am a tankie and voting for Biden lmao. The Prolitariat must be protected till enough class conciousness is achieved for Socialism to succeed.
And I'd vote for a corpse before I vote for 34 time Convicted Felon Donald Trump. Eat the rich. Pack the courts. Seize the assets of felonious companies.
You sound like a rational tankie, which by the definitions that lemmies have explained to me, would make you not a tankie.
"Anyone who thinks themselves a tankie is too self aware to be one" sounds like one of those fallacies you'd learn about in highschool. (What is a tankie, btw? I've been too scared to ask...)*
A tankie is, broadly, someone who wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods. It originally referred to those who defended the USSR using tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution, but it could be aptly used to describe those who defend China's actions in Tiananmen Square. It's rightfully used as a perjorative, since authoritarian enforcement is antithetical to leftism, particularly communism.
Tankies are hypocrites who didn't understand their self-proclaimed ideologies. If someone's idea of communist praxis is lining up dissenters for the firing squad, you're dealing with a tankie.
You get it! We can't fuck over vulnerable people. We can't abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it -- and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
That's such an important point. Anyone who thinks a win by Trump will somehow speed up the advent of socialism is just deluded.
Most based .ml user
I'd vote for ToS era Pike over Trump. I'd vote for a candidate who only communicates via ouija board over Trump. I'd vote to not have a president for 4 years before I'd vote for Trump.
It's crazy that Trump can get convicted of fraud, be found liable for sexual assault, promise to abuse presidential power to get revenge against those who cross him, actively undermine both national and global security, promise to round up millions and put them into camps, attempt to overthrow the election and refuse to not try it again, and so on, and his side is still so loyal they'll wear solidarity diapers for him.
I'm so down for ouija board prez.
Ouija board prez 'channeling' FDR: T-A-X-T-H-E-R-I-C-H-Goodbye
He is like a cult's leader, they can do no wrong. People's belief in him is unflappable.
I’m voting Brandon but let’s not pretend he didn’t shit the bed. It was fucking awful. Brandon should fuck off, but I’d vote for a corpse over any republican, and that will probably be true for the rest of my life.
It's funny how the standard by which we judge Biden is so high, and the standard for Trump is so low. Like... "oh wow, orange man form complete sentence, he's really killin it" vs "omg Biden stumbled over his words and had one bad night, his candidacy is over".
Biden had more than “a bad night” the dude looks like he’s aging out of the ability to stay awake for 90 minutes at a time.
Fuck trump and the GOP for the rest of time but Joe looks like shit dude, and he has for a while. Don’t fucking gaslight me.
The issue here is that Biden has to compete for the morons in the middle who somehow can’t decide between an obvious traitor and a mediocre democrat. So he simply must perform better. The standard is truly higher for him because it takes a lot to sway the mentally defective undecideds.
Technically I'm voting for Biden, in reality I'm voting against Trump. I really wish I had a better option...
Outside of voting, you have options. I'm not American, but I'd advise any communists to vote Biden simply because the repression under Trump could get really ugly, hindering any proper organisation. Just view it as what I think it also actually is: A cynical, pragmatic move to save you and other working people from more open repression, nothing more.
But before and after voting: Put your energy into unions like the IWW, into neighbourhood organisations for mutual aid, into community defense like the SRA or Redneck Revolt, into antifascist organisation, into refining your own position and presenting it to others. Create networks and connections. All preventing Trump is doing is buying time for now to do exactly that. Things will only get worse in the decades ahead, with no end in sight for the climate catastrophe and further decay of capitalism - and laying the groundwork of actually being able to do something is critically important right now, in my opinion.
Of course everyone is in the end their own master when it comes to decisions like this. Just - remember that by not voting in this specific election you also aren't changing anything. And while I fully understand the desire to organise for a third party, they have been marginalised effectively, at least I personally don't think electoral politics will bring any relevant changes, one way or the other. They are just about who carries the whip used against you, and in this case if the are openly and harshly, or covertly and less efficiently using it.
That all being said - I think a few people here overestimate the amount of tankies and communists that won't vote Biden. The group is marginal in the big scheme of things. If Biden loses, you can be certain, they were not responsible, they are most likely less than 1% of voters. Personally, I'd blame the corporate core of the Democratic party and middle class liberals for being out of touch with reality.
What I've seen so many people not understand with the situation we are in right now, is that we can't fix our current situation in one election. Everything is far to tucked up for that, so the best that can be done is vote for the least fucked up option and work to improve things. People refusing to participate or vote for the candidate who is unfortunately our best option currently (biden) are doing more damage than the people voting for the fascist party. The perfect candidate/option does not exist and never will (obviously not saying everything biden has done has been good).
Just because you are still voting Biden, doesn't mean you don't care.
It just means you still don't want the raving malignant narcissist Trump.
Any somewhat normal person would be the obvious choice over Trump. Any person who is not clearly a traitor to USA and Democracy would be preferable to Trump.
I don't know about the "traitor" thing. Edward Snowden would definitely make a better president than Trump.
This is some weird ass propaganda.
The best thing that Biden ever did was just to not be Trump.
Why are these memes so weirdly die-hard in the support of a man that is visibly unfit for the 4 years of presidency?
No one is actually excited about old Joe. It's just that he's simply not Trump.
It would be best if he steps down so that we can get a person in office that actually excites people for more than just not being the other guy.
I'm voting against Trump. Not thrilled to have a president who might have to have his Oval Office relocated to a nursing home.
Yeah, some ppl don't get that you don't have to like Biden, to vote against trump. 🤷♂️
I'm voting for the man with one foot in the coffin that is not trump, but it doesn't matter because I don't live in a swing state.
Yeah, I feel like people are freaking out and ignoring that Biden (and Trump) are largely the people they surround themselves with, and the policies they push.
They've both been president for years.
The boyfriend last night was surprised I didn't watch the debate.
"They've both been president. I was paying attention. I know what their presidencies will be like. Why listen to them talk about it?"
This is what Germany in 1929 was - without social media.
Biden loses
OP blames the 5 tankies actually living in the USA for voting 3rd party
Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying... Yeah we're gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.
Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate.... considering the alternative
He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for
But NOOOOO both sides both sides lalalaa can't hear you both sides lalalaa /s
In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.
-Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!
I've been called many names, including "tankie", so I'll take a stab at responding.
I'm not mad about the debate at all. I expected something fairly similar. I'm mad that Biden and the Democratic leadership seems to have put their own interests above the interest of the ~~party~~ people (edit: Ugh. Terrible typo).
If Biden had gracefully stepped aside and given just about any other Democrat his full support, we'd be in a much better position now. Instead we have a candidate with a ton of baggage and who presents an easy target for Trump's style of argument. Many mainstream Democrats, including the NYT, are finally starting to realize this. Unfortunately it's probably a year too late. At this point it would just make it look like Demoratic kingmakers forced him out.
If I went by the modern definition of "tankie" as, an anti-american authoritarian communist. I probably wouldn't be mad at any of this. I'd be cackling with glee because either of the current nominees will be terrible for the US. Neither of them has a serious long term plan. Neither of them can articulate a policy position. Both of them will continue to erode the power and moral authority of the United States.
Like it or not. Trump is likely to be the next president https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/. At this point it's probably wise to start thinking about how to limit his impact and how to start cleaning up the mess afterwards.
Considering that Biden's main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there's pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who's not a neonazi.
Would be nice to have a candidate who stands for something other than "he's not the other guy" or "I'm sticking it to [group]!"
