this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
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[–] doubletwist 3 points 1 day ago

Loved the Dreamcast. Other than the lack of DVD player, I still think it was better than the PS2.

Quite a few games that were released on both consoles looked better and played more smoothly on the Dreamcast than they did on the supposedly more powerful PS2. Dave Mirra BMX is one that immediately comes to mind. It was way better on the Dreamcast.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If the Dreamcast hadn't had the misfortune of coming out during the objectively best console generation, it would have done fine - but also, if it hadn't been the latest in a series of flops (Sega CD, 32x, Saturn), then maybe the Dreamcast's failure wouldn't have driven Sega out of the console market. Sega struck gold with the Genesis and they just couldn't replicate it, RIP to a real one,

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

i beg to differ; dreamcast was my life during first and second year uni. i played the hell out of phantasy star online.

[–] AgentGrimstone 9 points 1 day ago

Dreamcast finally let me access the internet from the privacy of my own room.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 10 points 1 day ago

I'm going to take a bold position and say they were all good consoles. It was a beautiful time for video games.

[–] [email protected] 86 points 3 days ago (12 children)

This is a really odd way of putting it seeing as the Dreamcast came out before the PS2 and was discontinued before the other 2 even came out.

[–] capt_wolf 31 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

They're actually all considered 6th gen consoles. There's only a 3 year gap between the Dreamcast and the Xbox.

Dreamcast was 98

PS2 was 2000

GameCube and Xbox were both 01, the year Dreamcast was discontinued.

Dreamcast could have been a wild success, probably would have been, too. The major issue was that the Playstation was still totally dominating the market. 98 and 99 were both ridiculously strong years for PSX title releases. Then the PS2 released and totally overshadowed it. Sega just couldn't keep up... Nobody could. Not until the market kinda leveled out in 05-06.

[–] MeatsOfRage 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Don't forget DVD playback. Most people by the year 2000 still only had VHS. DVD players were prohibitively expensive at the time so a lot of people were holding out. PS2 had DVD and cost about half the price of dedicated players. I know a lot of homes bought them purely as a movie machine.

I bet if Dreamcast had DVD playback the history of the Dreamcast would've been very different.

[–] capt_wolf 2 points 1 day ago

Absolutely, getting a PS2 was a game changer for me. DVD playback AND backward compatability. You had PS2, PSX, CD, and DVD all in one. I dumped my VCR shortly after getting it and mothballed my PSX. My 5 disc stereo collected dust until I sold it. Rigged it to my 5.1 speaker system to run on the same line as my computer. Between the PS2 and a properly equipped gaming PC, my bedroom was practically a movie theater, albeit with a tiny ass 22" crt.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah I understand they were all 6th gen. My point was just that it doesn't really make sense to blame the Dreamcast failure on its timing. Dates also matter:

Late 98 was release in Japan
Late 99 was release worldwide
Early 2000 was PS2 in Japan
Late 2000 was PS2 worldwide
Early 2001 Dreamcast was killed
Late 2001/Early 2002 Gamecube and Xbox

The meme makes it look like the Dreamcast popped up late, but timing was not the reason for it's demise at all. PlayStation dominating the market, as you mentioned, was probably the biggest one. People knew the PS2 was around the corner and the Dreamcast had barely been out in the EU by the time the PS2 was strutting it's stuff on the Japanese market.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

They had everything right with the Dreamcast, but they had no confidence. They killed it after just 1 year while sales were actually rising, and even in that time it managed to get one of the best libraries of that era. Imagine if they had actually continued to support it.

[–] Lost_My_Mind 18 points 2 days ago (10 children)

It's not that they had no confidence. It's that they took Nintendos approach on hardware. Sell low at a loss, and make the money on software.

Problem is, you could pirate every single game on dreamcast. Just get a legit copy of the game (renting, buying and returning, borrow from a friend), and have a CD burner.

Then you could make a 1:1 copy of the game in roughly an hour. As the year 2000 went on, websites even made it easier by posting the game files for download. If you didn't have broadband (many didn't at the time. Most had 56k), you could go to your local library and carry a USB stick.

So every console sold cost them money. And the software was performing abysmally. Plus, PS2 was right around the corner. XBox was an unknown, and Gamecube was assumed to do better than it did.

From a console war perspective, the year 2001 may have been the most competitive year EVER for video games.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 days ago

Problem is, you could pirate every single game on dreamcast. Just get a legit copy of the game (renting, buying and returning, borrow from a friend), and have a CD burner.

Then you could make a 1:1 copy of the game in roughly an hour.

You make it sound trivial. While Sega left a security hole open for games to be loaded from a regular CD, the official games were released on GD-ROMs, a dual-layer CD with a 1.2 GB capacity.

So first off, you couldn't read them completely in a regular CD-ROM or even DVD-ROM drive. (I'm not counting the "swap" method because it's failure-prone and involves partially dismantling the drive and fiddling with it during operation.) You had to connect your console to a computer and use some custom software to read the GD-ROM on the console, and send the data over.

Once you had the data, you then had the problem of trying to fit a potentially 1.2 GB GD-ROM image onto a regular CD-ROM. A handful of games were actually small enough to fit already, and 80-minute and 99-minute CD-Rs would work in the DC and could store larger games. But for many games, crackers had to modify the game files to make them fit.

Often they would just strip all the music first, because that was an easy way to save a decent amount of space. Then if that wasn't enough, they would start stripping video files, and/or re-encoding audio and textures at lower fidelity.

Burning a CD-R from a downloaded file was easy, but ripping the original discs and converting them to a burnable image generally was not.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

you could go to your local library and carry a USB stick.

I don't remember it this way. Nothing else came close to the portable storage capacity of CD (and thus CD-R and CD-RW). The iomega zip drive was still a popular medium, allowing rewritable 100mb or 250mb cartridge. That was the preferred way to get big files to and from a computer lab when I was an engineering student in 2000.

USB flash drives had just been released in 2000, and their capacity was measured in like 8/16/32mb, nowhere near enough to meaningfully move CD images.

Then again, as a college student with on-campus broadband on the completely unregulated internet (back when HTTP and the WWW weren't necessarily considered the most important protocols on the internet), it was all about shared FTP logins PMed over IRC to download illegal shit. The good stuff never touched an actual website.

[–] AngryCommieKender 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I remember similarly. I was going to say that thumb drives weren't even invented until 2005-2006, but I looked it up and they were invented in 1999. I guess I forgot that those tiny ones even existed since I was doing all my external storage on DVD-R or CD-RW.

[–] BoxOfFeet 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I still have the lanyard to my 128 MB PNY Attaché.

[–] AngryCommieKender 2 points 1 day ago

I think my first one was 512 MB, but I don't have it anymore.

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[–] homesweethomeMrL 24 points 2 days ago

This. Management screwed up multiple times and doomed Sega to be . . . well, whatever it is they are now.

Bad Management (or "good management" if one finanically benefitted from this decision).

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[–] Iheartcheese 31 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Firefly and Dreamcast. Two things nerds are never going to fucking get over.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Iheartcheese 7 points 1 day ago (5 children)
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

"We may have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." --Captain Malcolm Reynolds

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Dreamcast is still my favorite console of all time.

[–] this_1_is_mine 9 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The memory card ..... It was originally designed to even allow gaming on the card like a mini gameboy when disconnected. By now it would be. A steam deck that acts as a controller.... Huh reminds me of the vita.......

[–] SkyezOpen 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They do exist. For sonic adventure you could load a Chao onto it and it was basically a tamagotchi.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The fact that nobody has done "screen in a controller" since Nintendo toyed around with a handful of Gamecube-GBA games is a crime. It was a cool ass idea that got displaced by internet lobbies before it got off the ground.

edit: yeah I know Wii U too but that's not what I mean, that's something else.

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[–] dezmd 23 points 2 days ago (2 children)

All it needed was a goddamn network pork instead of a dialup modem and it would be alive today. DC was the best.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I love my network pork! Tastes like bacon!

[–] dezmd 13 points 2 days ago

Deinitely never editing that

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[–] Lost_My_Mind 27 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Hey.......I still remember the release date. 9/9/99.

Plus, you could use your dreamcast to talk to a fish. An insulting sarcastic fish.....but the game was narrated by Leonard Nemoy. Sometimes he'd insult you too.....

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

In an age of LLM, Seaman needs a remake.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yes! It's the only kind of game where an LLM would be a good addition.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 2 days ago (3 children)

Seaman is one of those games that I'm intentionally not replaying, because it absolutely blew my mind when I was ten years old, and I just want to leave it that way. I'm guessing the tricks they used to mimic conversation would be very obvious to me now, but back then it seemed completely real. That game turned your CRT TV into a fish tank with an honest to god talking fish inside of it... and Spock gave you updates about how he was doing when you checked on him after school.

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[–] Thcdenton 38 points 3 days ago (6 children)
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

Poor Sega. There just wasn't room for four consoles.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The PSX/N64/Saturn generation would've been better for this meme. Nintendo had its name, Sony had "two ninety nine", Sega had schizophrenic mismanagement and burnt bridges with retailers

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago

You could put the Sega CD or 32X into this meme and it would still work, the Dreamcast was just the last in a series of flops.

[–] ErrorCode 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I really like my Dreamcast!

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[–] VelvetStorm 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm just gonna say it. Dreamcast was my favorite console until ps4 and ps5.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Umm I'm sorry to break this to you buddy but I pirated every dreamcast game I owned short of sonic adventure and Phantsy star online. That's probably why the dreamcast failed.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago

They just really wanted to release on 9/9/99 no matter what.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Sega’s only console success was Mega Drive/Genesis. Probably because “Sega does what Nintendon’t”. Sega managed to sell themselves as the alternative for the kids who were too cool for the SNES.

They couldn’t compete with Sony on that front. Sony was the new cool guy. Dreamcast failed because everybody was waiting for PS2.

So I’d say failed marketing killed Dreamcast.

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