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Insurance is failing hurricane survivors: ‘People thought they were covered’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2024
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Insurance companies get away with the most fucked up shit as a matter of course and nobody holds them accountable.
Insurance companies have a conflict of interest inherent in their business model. They make money by taking your money up front and then paying you back as little as possible at a later date. Any way to weasel out of paying up, especially in a big event like a hurricane, is a huge money saver for them. And most people are desperate. Their house is gone. They aren't in a position where they can argue and sit on the phone for hours and work it out.
And then, even if they do pay out, they just jack up your rates to make it all back. That's if they don't just drop your coverage completely.
Also as soon as they pay you out they either jack up the rates to recover what you paid or drop you entirely as you’re no longer profitable. It’s such a massive conflict of interest
That's not entirely the case. Typically, there is a lag (of a few years) between the payment of premiums and the paying out of claims. Insurance companies invest the premiums in the meantime and profit off the interest/gains from these investments (called the "float"). Well-run (and well-invested) insurers can actually collect less in premiums than they pay out in claims and still be profitable.
We need some kind of ACA for regular insurance, where unless people are literally building in a swamp or the bottom of a crater near a lake/river they should be just automatically covered.
Florida is uninsurable, that's kinda the issue.
There's a reason so many big insurance companies have left Florida. And honestly I don't really want even more Federal money going to rebuild in the most common path of ever rising hurricane intensity.
I want Federal funds set aside to move people out of Florida in homes elsewhere for those who want it. If you want to rebuild your house in the path of the hurricane you can do it on your own dime.
A good use of money and imminent domain. A one time payment to a person and relocating them is also something the US government has experience doing, especially in Florida. Can you imagine the irony of doing it to the white folks who took over the region?
But seriously, it is an actual good idea. It would save billions in the long run and would be a good use of effort to reduce the risk of more people going broke from random weather.
It'd probably be excellent to deny claims for anyone intending to rebuild instate and make it clear to those that do that they're fucked.
Not sure how we relocate basically everyone in the South though. And what about tornado alley, do we move all those people also? And then you have wild fires and earthquakes, do we move all of California also? I get what you are saying, but getting millions of people to move states or across the country isn't a simple thing. And what do we do with all the then empty previously "high valued" real estate? I do think we ultimately have to do something as global warming continues to cause humans issues at what seems like an accelerated rate, but we also have an alarming number of people that do not want to address it (or that even deny it happening).
What the fuck about it?
According to NOAA, the total cost of property damage for all tornadoes in 2022 was $700 million.
The damage cost from just Helene is estimated to be $47 billion.
Hurricanes are significantly more destructive than tornadoes.
There's no place on earth that doesn't suffer from natural disasters, and it's foolish to compare hurricanes to the rest. Wildfires can be mitigated somewhat, and earthquakes aren't predictable, neither of which are true about hurricanes. But hurricanes are going to get more destructive and more frequent as the climate warms, so rebuilding where they're going to predictably continue to hit is just foolish.
What about that too? If people want to continue to build on the path of hurricanes, let them. Just stop using taxpayer money to bail them out.
OK, you're the one that sounded like you wanted to move everyone. And I don't think when natural disasters continue to get worse that it's going to be just hurricanes causing mass destruction. We are eventually going to have the rise of sea levels coming into play, which will of course increase the destruction those hurricanes can create, but also the more water a hurricane like Milton spawning larger tornadoes has to move around inland.
Your stance that its OK for taxpayers to pay $2.5 million per tornado, but hurricane survivors should be on their own sounds kinda hypocritical.
From your previous post, your answer to your question is: You don't move them. Instead you skyrocket the rates of insurance on the rest of the nation so that people can continuously have their houses in high risk area destroyed and rebuilt while the rest of the country pays for it. This is what an "ACA for home insurance" would do.
A more realistic approach would be to change the building codes to accommodate specific natural disasters for that geography. You want to build a house in the woods? Now you need a significant fire break around the house and need to build the house out of fire resistant materials if you want coverage. This is discussion of building regulation changes is already occurring. Same thing for houses in hurricane areas. If you want to build there, you have to build houses that will survive there and not be destroyed by the inevitable conditions.
None of this large transition is completed overnight, but it has to start happening now. What we have now is unsustainable.
Whoa whoa whoa, building codes? That's just costly red tape! How will builders see ever increasing profit margins with all this government bureaucracy?! Remove the building codes entirely, let the Free Market^TM^ do an invisible handshake with Jesus, and the rest will take care of itself /s
New houses are required to be built to code for hurricane force wind here, the "post-Andrew" building code is good. Most of us don't have new houses though, my house is from the 1940s, and the one I moved from is 100 years old this year.
We do have building code, what we don't have is anyone willing to say no to developers. Sprawl, less land to absorb water. I see houses being built on seasonal wetlands, they fill them and raise 'em then the rest of the neighborhood floods in the rainy season. Nobody should be able to do that.
Restricting freedoms too?! You must be one uhv them commi an-tee-fah immigrants takin' up all our jobs and unemployment benefits! Stay away from our cats! ... unless they belong to childless women, then it's fair game! /S
I think housing like this might be a smarter move than trying to move millions of people (or leaving them homeless).
First, I like those homes, but there's a HUGE problem with your proposal.
From your linked article:
"But these features come at a cost. According to the community’s website, the homes are selling for $1.4 million to $1.9 million, compared to other new homes in the area priced for at least $600,000. "
Who are you suggesting pays for each person currently in FL to get a $1.4 million to $1.9 million home?
Well I would assume some of that comes from the lower volume of building the homes, with less people in construction in the area possessing the skills/materials to do so. Perhaps if the government put money towards volume buying materials and securing contractors able to build them, the price could come down to "market" values. I would think insurance companies would also see it as a win not having to payout as much for those that can actually be insured (and maybe makes it so more people can actually be covered making the graph go up).
I could be way off and the pricing of those homes are just unable to come down to an acceptable $ value, but government/insurance money would be put to better use looking to build more future climate safe homes as close as possible to the above model instead of today's standard.
You're agreeing with 90% of my post you indicated you disagreed with.
Economies of scale for materials would reduce costs slightly, but my understanding is the biggest cost of home building is land first, then labor. Material cost is surprisingly lower on the list. Labor costs are only going up, not down, and in our home building example labor doesn't get less expensive when you scale up.
Climate disasters are not affecting the world equally everywhere. Hurricanes are far and away the most destructive climate related disaster and they disproportionately affect Florida of all US states
It would say drought would be a climate related disaster more destructive than hurricanes.
There's a UK scheme called Flood Re that does this kind of thing. If you're more than a certain probability of flooding, you need to go with an insurer that's backed by the government's reinsurance policy.
That's basically how US flood insurance works. The entire country is mapped out in flood zones based on a every 100 year occurrence. If you're in the zone you're required to buy insurance... but it's bullshit. They have a bunch of inland people paying the same rate as the people's houses that are on the coast and flood every 5 to 10 years.
So no Florida coverage? As well as a good bit of the south east and new Orleans is swampy.
Private insurance used to offer flood insurance like 100 years ago, but to stay in business they had to raise premiums to a point where no one could realistically afford it (which is to say that living in a flood zone is not financially feasible for most people). The government had to step in with their own flood insurance program, which was tied to regulation intending to minimize the risk of flooding in at-risk zones so that premiums could remain affordable. Even these measures haven't been sufficient to keep the program from running out of money, and we've been subsidizing it with taxpayer bailouts to keep it afloat.
All this is to say that private insurance is literally incapable of insuring against flood damage, so you can't blame them for any of this. If you want to blame someone, blame Trump for rolling back standards that would have allowed FEMA to consider climate change in their risk models.
For private insurance, the key is "to stay in business with huge profits" for the gov version, it's politics of course, which you point out. They could easily fund it.
This is an actual logical take. Don’t live in a flood prone area if you don’t take adequate measures to protect your investments. That’s the customers/citizens responsibility. They aren’t blameless.
Hurricanes aren’t just a climate change issue. They’ve existed in the Florida area long before anyone settled it and many were MUCH more destructive in the past.
My family is from FL. Guess where I don’t live. My house is nice and dry (so is all of their’s but that’s because they got lucky and weren’t directly hit).
Also, read and understand what insurance you actually have. Can’t understand the legalese? Then ask the agent what you are covered for and what you aren’t. It’s really not that hard but some people would rather blame others instead of taking personal responsibility.
I had a partially flooded basement due to a rough monsoon season last year, one window well backed up, and I ended up doing all the work myself since I don’t have flood insurance either (where I live it’s super rare). I’m not blaming anyone but myself for that.
I think you’re missing the part where places flooded that have never flooded before. Places that never even saw a hurricane. Unless you plan on moving everything to the tops of mountains, or the middle of an empty plain, anything can flood when enough water hits it.
I’m not missing that. Florida is barely above sea level. I’m not talking about inland North Carolina here. That was truly nuts for all.
Their entire business model is fucking people over.
That would require good governance, appropriate oversight, and consumer activism. Unfortunately Florida man has no interest in these things.
To be fair... They would have been happy to have sold these people food insurance. How many would have purchased it even if they knew more about it? How keen are you to listen to your insurance company trying to "upsell you shit you don't need?"