this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
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[–] PrinceWith999Enemies 205 points 11 months ago (8 children)

Evolutionary biologist here.

I know this is a recurring meme, and it does have a basis in truth. However, in my opinion, it vastly overemphasizes a single aspect of early humans at the expense of other and more important distinct human qualities (and I’m using this term to also refer to our closely related species and ancestors).

First, the real distinction is sociality. Humans are the most cooperative species of hominid. As someone once said, you will never see two chimpanzees carrying a log together. This translates into being able to coordinate efficient hunting practices in a variety of ecosystems.

Second, and very related, is social learning. Other species can also exhibit social learning, but never to the degree humans do. Most species figure out things in evolutionary time - what counts as food, what counts as danger, the best way to do X, etc. Humans do it daily and pass it on to each other. We learn to kill prey by setting fires in grasslands. We develop tools and teach each other how to make and use them. These are all interlocking effects. The bigger our brains get, the more helpless our babies are, so the more we need societies, which creates increasingly complex social dynamics, which rewards more complex brains, and so on.

In short, it’s intelligence and social learning replacing learning in evolutionary time that made humans successful, possibly to the point of self destruction.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 11 months ago

possibly to the point of self destruction.

Ah, an optimist

[–] lanolinoil 44 points 11 months ago (2 children)

As someone once said, you will never see two chimpanzees carrying a log together.

Such a great point that really drives home just how much we cooperate and take it for granted.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

And then people say competition is what makes society go around.

Nah, cooperation is the core of everything we do, and we should embrace it as much as possible.

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[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001 40 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I'd also argue that our ability to accurately throw things to a reliable degree plays a huge part in our success as a species.

As far as I'm aware we're one of the only species capable of accurately throwing things with consistency.

[–] Enk1 24 points 11 months ago

More broadly, we developed more slow twitch muscles that granted us greater fine motor skills, and subsequently the ability to create and use tools. Other apes retained their fast twitch muscles, so their ability to use tools is limited, but pound-for-pound they're FAR stronger than humans.

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies 12 points 11 months ago

I agree. I don’t know that I’d rank it quite as high as some other factors if we’re trying to find some function for “causal elements for human ecological success” or something like that, but there’s no doubt it was selected for and the degree to which we are good at it is a good indicator of its importance. Good call.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago

This was a very cool and eloquent explanation. Thank you!

[–] Asifall 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Interesting, I admit that I didn’t realize until I just did a little research that persistence hunting as a significant feature in early humans isn’t actually well supported by much if any evidence.

Are there other theories on why humans seem to be almost uniquely good at distance running? Is it a spandrel?

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies 11 points 11 months ago

That’s a fantastic question!

There’s archeological evidence that modern humans were far more mobile than we have generally assumed (see eg David Graeber), but we’re talking 10-20k years ago there, which is very recent in evolutionary time where we’d be talking about physical adaptations.

SJ Gould, who was the origin of the spandrel idea, warned frequently against telling “just so” stories to try to reverse engineer the processes of selection that led to this or that feature. However, I do think that the hominid physique enabled multiple things. It has been observed that you won’t ever see a spider or octopus or dolphin moving fire from one place to another. That’s something that bipeds are able to do, and fire is one of the things we think was a key development. It’s the same with generalized tool use. So we can see there may have been multiple selection pressures leading towards bipedalism.

If distance running were truly a spandrel, we’d have to say that it was a consequence of these selective pressures giving rise to the body plan, but wasn’t itself selected for. I’d be more conservative on that one, and hazard a guess that distance running (or efficiency in long distance movement) was also a selective pressure. I just don’t think the evidence is there to say that it was the dominant one at that time.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

How much does sleep and dreaming contribute to this? Have you looked into how humans dream compared to other animals? Any papers to point to?

[–] PrinceWith999Enemies 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That’s a fascinating question. I am not sure about animal research on dreaming, but Thomas Metzinger is an experimental philosopher (for want of a better term) who studies the basis of the concept of the self as a coherent entity, and his work includes extensive research on phenomena like lucid dreaming, phantom limbs, and out of body experiences. I’m not talking about anything paranormal - there’s conditions under which people’s experience of perception and self become separated from our ordinary experience of “my self is sitting behind my eyeballs.” He collaborates closely with experimental psychologists and neuroscientists, so between his work and references you might be able to see if there’s a correlation.

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[–] Sanctus 111 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Mom! Look what I can do! profusely sweats

[–] RockAndGnome 19 points 11 months ago

"stop shedding hair young man!"

[–] random_character_a 11 points 11 months ago (1 children)

...I also smell profusely like musky urine.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago

It isn't polite to brag, sweetie.

[–] [email protected] 85 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Humanity's secret weapon: power walking

[–] [email protected] 41 points 11 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

And throwing shit very well

[–] qooqie 60 points 11 months ago (5 children)

It’s a fucking horror movie trying to run from something like that

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago (10 children)

The snail is terrifying.

You get lots of wealth, but a magic snail is trying to find you. If it touches you, you die.

You cannot track or kill or permanently trap it, it is constant moving towards you.

Something like that

[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Snail takes a 1.3 days to crawl a mile, 280 miles a year. With a huge amount of wealth you can just move to the otherside of the country or ocean every 6 or 7 years.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago (6 children)

The snail is intelligent and understands transportation.

Still take the deal?

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[–] Zehzin 8 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I can't permanently trap it, so I can put it in a safe that opens after like 1000 years?

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[–] RockAndGnome 9 points 11 months ago

*Halloween music gets more intense

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Speak for yourself! I get tired easily

[–] RockAndGnome 15 points 11 months ago

It's ok, I saved you some Mammoth.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I just woke up and I'm so tired.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago (3 children)

Hey who you calling primit-

Primittititiv-...

HOO

HOOOO HOOO HAA HAAAAAA

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I dunno if a thrown spear counts as “short range” in a primitive world

[–] [email protected] 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Atlatls are over 20000 y/o and are futher range than just spears.

Bow and arrows show up in the archaeological record ~70000 years ago.

So, yeah both those are longer range than spears and predate writing and use of most metals.

So if you consider pre bronze age primitive; yes spears are short range.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Heck, slings were around even before bow and arrows and can definitely be considered long range

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[–] EatYouWell 9 points 11 months ago

They recently discovered evidence that the atlatl was used 30,000 years ago.

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[–] samus12345 23 points 11 months ago (1 children)

"That Terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

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[–] ZeroXHunter 10 points 11 months ago

Let's not kid ourselves, the real reason is the POWER OF FRIENDSHIP!

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

And then somebody invented the idea of THROWING a rock and suddenly the game of earth is SOLVED.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Humans never get tired from exercise?

[–] Cannibal_MoshpitV3 56 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Humans have the highest capacity for endurance and for a very long time we hunted not by being smarter but by literally following animals until they got tired and gave up before we did.

[–] nixcamic 26 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I believe certain breeds of dogs and horses can keep up with us, but only because we bred them to.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Early human to wolf: "You stalk. I stalk. Stalk together?"

Wolf: "Us BFF4Eva hairless ape"

The most enduring love story in human history.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)
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[–] Zehzin 8 points 11 months ago

I will kill for this creature

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 11 months ago (2 children)

To follow an animal often required tracking it when it ran out of sight. Our sense of smell stinks, so we looked for clues on where it went. That's smart

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (5 children)

That, plus we are good at throwing things and we sweat. Which means we have range and we can cool off while still being active.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 11 months ago

If they're fit, not too tired. Humans are some of the best distance runners in the animal kingdom, and we can walk virtually forever. And we can regulate our own body temperature by sweating. And we can carry some extra food and water with us. And we are capable of being excellent trackers as well. The joke in the op is about how humans used to hunt - by chasing an animal until it collapses of exhaustion. Some tribes still do this today

[–] Voyajer 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (4 children)

As a group we do not. Grab 5 buddies, take turns jogging, follow a deer until it either falls off a cliff/gets exhausted/makes some other mistake.

If it runs, chill, just spread out and keep it in sight.

This is how the human do

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[–] CurlyMoustache 8 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Depends on what you mean exercise. Sprinting will tire you out, but you will quickly be ready again. Walking you can do almost forever. If you have a decent amount of fat on your body, you are basically a perpetuum mobile (sleep excluded, of course). Your footwear will go before you tire.

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