this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2025
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submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Guys, at this rate I don't think the revolution's going to happen anytime soon.

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[–] DrCake 126 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I swear you could introduce UBI and someone somewhere would complain about it not being left enough.

[–] TheTechnician27 68 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Someone somewhere would because UBI is the capitalist techbro idea of a social safety net; it's a band-aid that doesn't address the underlying problems in a similar way to how the ACA helps but in reality is a very center-right idea that doesn't address the underlying hypercapitalist healthcare system.

[–] [email protected] 85 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Well there yah go, we didn’t even need to introduce it and it’s already not left enough.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (3 children)
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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

It was cooked up by Milton Friedman, one of the grandfathers of American free market libertarianism.

The whole impetus of UBI was to eliminate traditional social services because, it is argued, there's no way that a government institution could be as efficient or effective as a free market.

And make no mistake, even modern proponents of UBI such as Andrew Yang propose funding it by hollowing out existing social services.

Like, yeah, UBI is better than having literally no social support at all, but the fact that its seen as this ultra-leftist idea, to the point that we apparently can't even conceive of how it could possibly "not be left enough", is an indication of how far right mainstream politics has shifted.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I mean it depends on the context of how UBI is going to get paid for. If it is funded by a wealth tax then I am on board. But that's not how the powerful proponents of UBI say it should be funded. Andrew Yang would have us take it out of Social Security to pay for it but you don't hear him say we should uncap Social Security contributions.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Also, I think rent caps or something need to be introduced as well. I worry about landlords just assuming you have an extra 2,000 on you and then taking it.

But implemented with the right protections, I would love UBI.

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[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 13 points 1 month ago (6 children)

UBI is only surface-level leftist, it's distributing some of the wealth while leaving the important parts - property - untouched.

So yes, I and many others would complain about UBI. I've long held it's an untenable bandage slapped on the gaping hemorrhage that is capitalism.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago

It's certainly not enough, but I'd still prefer it over nothing. I'll gladly take a miniscule win.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 month ago (1 children)

If you know anything about first aid you know that slapping a bandage on is the first step to actually helping the patient.

[–] TheDoozer 22 points 1 month ago (3 children)

"The real problem with this stab wound is it damaged their liver. Putting a bandage over the wound isn't going to solve that, what they really need is surgery!"

"We're twenty miles away from a hospital, we need to stop the bleeding or they'll die before we get them to a doctor."

"A bandage isn't going to save them. Only a surgeon will."

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[–] Deestan 30 points 1 month ago (5 children)

And that is the issue. Ada is bleeding to death, and Bob is giving them a rudimentary bandage to staunch the bleeding. You could:

  • Let Bob do their thing, and go get an ambulance.

  • Complain to Bob that this will only slow down the bleeding. What Ada needs is to be in a hospital. Keep yelling at Bob for his shitty bandage.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago

You know what the most important thing for proper triage is : my personal feelings /s

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[–] Taalnazi 17 points 1 month ago

I mean, if it introduces people to surface-level leftist ideas and gets them onboard, they then can be drawn further to the normal - the left wing ideas. Which would be good.

I agree with you though that it's only a bandage.

[–] laserm 15 points 1 month ago

The irony writing itself.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

You literally just engaged in what the OP was talking about, and here am I joining in as well.

[–] [email protected] 74 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Ah yes, the old enemy of the left: the left.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You leftists sure are a contentious people.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You've just made an enemy for life!

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[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 month ago (18 children)

'Centrists' don't help much either because they too hold the left to a higher standard than the right and always seem to be looking for any excuse to whip out the ol' "so much for the tolerant left" so that they can feel better about themselves when they vote for who they really wanted to vote for anyway.

People on the right can say in plain English "I want to dismantle women's rights and put all gay people into camps" and the 'centrist' will be like "hmmm yes that seems like a valid political opinion". But the moment someone on the left drops the high road shit for once and bites back, the 'centrist', clutching pearls is like "See? This is why I'm supporting the bigots that hate everyone, because you SWORE and that's unacceptable!"

[–] UnderpantsWeevil 34 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

You can see it plain as day in the last election's rhetoric. Democrats insist that a simple Republican Majority is enough to end democracy nationwide. However, they also believe Republicans can trivially block any liberal initiative from the legislative minority.

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[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 month ago

The differences of opinion are still there in irl leftist spaces but it alters how it feels when you’re actively doing something. Online you only see the differences in opinion but the real leftists aren’t just arguing details online (though they do that too) they’re running food banks and organizing housing cooperatives and coming out en masse when someone is being evicted. They’re putting together food packages and sending books to inmates. They’re hiking out into the desert to leave water for migrants and waiting by the train tracks to toss food up to travelers.

Bickering about details online might seem ridiculous to someone who isn’t involved but for the actually active leftists that part is only a sliver of their leftism and it’s not necessarily a bad thing— it’s very hard to imagine the world organized other than it is and one way we can be prepared to make the right decisions together when gaps appear is to discuss everything from every angle. I’m not going to pretend all the stuff online is in good faith and I suspect a good percentage of keyboard warriors who are not actually involved in leftward movement, but I do think in the context of real activism the bickering makes more sense.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

A lot of online leftists aren't doing anything because they don't know how to do something (or are scared, e.g. of losing their job or of getting brutalized by the police). If you aren't doing anything in The Real World(TM) there are only so many things left to do, and the internet is genuinely terrible about people who make mistakes or change their opinion.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Right... Except this is true for all online communities. People talk a lot of shit and complain a lot. Cope with it or log off.

Or blame it on the left, lol, whatever makes you happy.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I am left and this is so fucking true though. So many pussy-ass towel wringing gutless cowards just want to pick bones out of tofu than actually act to make a meaningful difference because they are frozen with indecision over acadmic moral quandries

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I wish we could all just agree on a few basics and do it. Like, can we support unions and do mutual aid? Yeah, it's not nearly enough to fix all our problems, but it's a start. Maybe it will help bring about anarcho syndicalist trotskyist solarpunk feminism, and maybe it won't, but it's a start.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Bones out of tofu is a great expression.

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[–] [email protected] 27 points 1 month ago

It's how we're conditioned to behave by society from birth. Break the rules and you get punished.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago

This so fucking much

[–] finitebanjo 21 points 1 month ago

It's easy to convince people to do wrong if you convince them there is no right to be done.

That's why Tankies are so hard to tell us both sides bad.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Except in crisis, a society benefits when everyone does nothing renegade.

The problem is we're in crisis, largely due to a lack of information about the scope and breadth of that crisis.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

The Left: Fractured Butt Hole. 😞

[–] But_my_mom_says_im_cool 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They suck because nobody is left enough for anyone else, this past year the left splintered and if you so much as lean a little bit left or right of another leftist, you’re a fascist and they don’t want your support.

Meanwhile the right is unified, so no wonder the left is getting its ass handed to them.

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[–] AeonFelis 11 points 1 month ago (2 children)

No. The most important thing is to gain virtue points by pointing out other people doing something wrong.

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