this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2024
284 points (97.7% liked)

News

23709 readers
3878 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
JonsJava
rjc
Thekingoflorda
Tenthrow
gedaliyah
little_cow
jeffw
enu
284
Musk, Vivek Enrage MAGA Fans by Saying Tech Firms Need Foreign Workers (www.rollingstone.com)
submitted 5 days ago by return2ozma to c/news
34 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 34 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] cogman 349 points 5 days ago (8 children)

So let's be really fucking clear here on what Vivek and Musk want. It isn't more immigration. They want disposable tech workers that they can ship back to their countries of origin when they misbehave. They want the power dynamic they have over H1Bs that they don't have over US citizens.

What Musk and Vivek can't find isn't "motivated" americans. They can't find cheap american tech workers who have to take abuse or else they get deported.

This is, BTW, why right wingers focus so heavily on border control but not employment enforcement. You could end 90% of undocumented workers today if you penalized businesses found employing them. And it's real fucking easy to find those businesses. Go to just about any farm in the US.

The reason for boosting ICE funding is so a business owner can turn to their undocumented employees and say "If you don't fall in line, I'll call ICE and deport your ass". This allows them to issue all sorts of abuse at their employees that they can't get away with for US citizens.

This is why open borders or easy paths to citizenship is important.

[–] CharlesDarwin 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

So let’s be really fucking clear here on what Vivek and Musk want. It isn’t more immigration. They want disposable tech workers that they can ship back to their countries of origin when they misbehave. They want the power dynamic they have over H1Bs that they don’t have over US citizens.

Given just what freaks Thiel and Vance are, I bet they not only want this, too, but probably want to go further:

https://newrepublic.com/article/183971/jd-vance-weird-terrifying-techno-authoritarian-ideas

[–] [email protected] 59 points 5 days ago

TL/DR version:

Slavery

[–] [email protected] 79 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I've seen this tech bro corpo slave labor H1-B mechanism in real life for a long time, it's always been disgusting.

I talked to an H1-B coworker at my going away party when I was leaving a toxic tech corpo job, and she remarked, almost in tears, "I'm so glad you get to leave!" I remarked to her, "well, if it's so bad, why can't you just leave?" "They'd send me back to India." That particular job had one working 7 days a week rather frequently throughout the year to meet always unrealistic deadlines. The H1-B employees basically lived at the office.

I also remember talking to a new coworker that came from India at one company and he explained to me that this particular company was used as the easiest path to get from India to America. Probably more stories I've forgot off the top of my head, because there were so many.

One of those employers also had a greater-than-zero suicide rate of employees.

Time and time again the corpos claim they can't find the talent they need domestically when there's plenty. (Which is the legal mechanism they use to apply for or increase H1-B employees.) They just don't want to pay domestic salaries to workers that may actually be able to push back on their rights as humans.

Fuck tech bros.

[–] CharlesDarwin 2 points 2 days ago

I have lots of stories related to H-1Bs. I remember interviewing after one of my layoffs and it was a particular wing of a gigantic cable news company.

The hiring manager, an Indian, was making it very clear that he expected "his" staff to work over and beyond 40 hours. I let slip I had a recent child, and that was clearly a mistake - I think the interview was basically over at that point. I should not have offered that as it's illegal to ask about it on their end. Anyway, they went through a few more motions for the "interview" after that and I spoke to more people. Everyone else I spoke to was Indian and practically genuflecting to this guy. They were clearly scared of him. I learned from someone in another department at the same place that nearly everyone in that job was H-1B, but not the manager. This other person figured they wanted to hire someone like me as the new token citizen, as they had a few before, but left for greener pastures. One was fired for being too unruly, apparently. Iron-fisted dictator in middle management expected people to be on-call 24/7 and one of the citizens was not having it.

Seems I dodged a bullet. After that interview, another one came up the week after for a MUCH better job and they had absolutely ZERO H-1Bs, thank Pan.

[–] Botzo 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I put myself in the firing line in front of an H1-B I had taken under my wing when the sales started slipping under the new VC installed "execs."

At least we both got some solid severance, and freedom.

He's doing great in a new job and I'm enjoying my hobbies and trying my hardest to stay away from tech.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Good move, tech is such a toxic industry.

[–] CharlesDarwin 3 points 2 days ago

If you can find the right place, there are still pockets where it has not been completely taken over by the "techbros" (sigh, I hate that term's implications - it's really MBA-type douches, not so much the tech people themselves).

Sadly, they usually don't last too long. It's like constantly trying to find a TAZ or something. Sooner or later, some seagull manager is given free reign to fuck it all up, destroy any good culture that anyone managed to make and so you have to move on...the places I've seen it turn fastest is where some MBA genius thinks they need to "save on human resources" by abusing the H-1B system. If you are lucky enough to be at a place that has no H-1Bs, and then they start getting added, start getting your things in order and GTFO if you can, because it's likely to turn into a toxic wasteland.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago

The H1-B employees basically lived at the office.

I was an H1-B around Y2K. I was at a good company, until we sued IBM and they gaslit the shit out of everyone. They actually kept the H1s around so we didn't get kicked out of the country, or until we could find new jobs and go home to a job instead of being homeless -- and even then, they manufactured reasons to give us a lengthy severance and hand-over, like they gave the naturalized employees. I left before I was at risk, for other reasons, and worked from my home country until the lawsuit costs ate my job too.

[–] Tyfud 29 points 5 days ago

This is spot on.

Source: I have worked in tech for 27+ years and have seen multiple outsourcing/offshoring events happen. Still happening in my place of employment really.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The tag I've now given your username:

[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Are you using a third-party client? I don't see this feature on the default Lemmy web interface.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Yeah i used Boost on my phone and it lets me tag people. One of the reasons i left reddit for lemmy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

I didn't realize i could do this in Boost. Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Damn, I was hoping someone had made a Lemmy Enhancement Suite like RES

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 days ago

This is a reason I haven't quite heard yet. It really makes sense when you hear these tech fucks who claim everyone needs to work 80 hours and not join unions etc. Your H1s can't complain about anything due to not only losing their job, but their life here too.

[–] FlyingSquid 17 points 5 days ago (3 children)

They want disposable tech workers that they can ship back to their countries of origin when they misbehave.

Exactly. They want indentured laborers and if they had been smart enough to tell the other conservatives, the other conservatives would have gone along with it.

But they're not smart people.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The problem, i think, is that if they said that outright their workers might wise up and unionize or something.

[–] FlyingSquid 5 points 5 days ago

They clearly weren't even smart enough to say it in private.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This was always the unspoken convention between the business elites and the guys that railed against immigration and abortion. You can keep talking about it as long as you don't actually do anything about it. At some point the true believers just took over and thought they should pull the trigger on all those things.

It doesn't help that Democrats have no idea how to talk about this issue either. Banning H1B visas and forcing companies to sponsor for a full green card would probably be pretty popular with every constituency of the Democratic party (unions, liberals, recent immigrants, ...).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

But then the whole pro-worker schtick wouldn't work and they might have lost the election.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The same is probably true for Musk's obsession with Mars. When you own everything there including the transport back here you own the people there as well.

[–] Windex007 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I'd take odds that his mars ambitions are not only what you said, but that he didn't even organically come up with the desire. I'd bet he just saw Total Recall in theaters and walked out and was like "yep, I wanna be the bad guy from that movie"

[–] WaxiestSteam69 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

He's definitely trying to live out his favorite sci fi.

[–] Eatspancakes84 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Musk is obsessed with Sci-fi. He even has a child named X that he raises gender-neutral following a weird sci-fi book to the letter.

BTW despite the gender-neutral child he completely freaked out about Xs transgender sister. Consistently is not necessary

[–] Windex007 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There might be consistency in his logic if it's predicated on women being lesser than men. FtM would make sense to someone like that, but MtF would be absurd.

I think a lot of trans hate is really just a manifestation of misogyny.

[–] CharlesDarwin 1 points 2 days ago

I think a lot of trans hate is really just a manifestation of misogyny.

Probably not wrong there. Some men seem to think all women are out to "trick" them into supporting them and their offspring (possibly not even the offspring of the man, gasp) and a lot of them think that trans are trying to "trick" them by pulling out a surprise dong when they hook up.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Remember 'Animal Farm?'

Four legs good, two legs better?

[–] ArtVandelay 37 points 5 days ago (1 children)

"All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

We all apparently missed the sequel:

Musk is equalest of all

[–] [email protected] 35 points 5 days ago

I guess maga fans haven't worked for entitled tech bros before.

[–] whotookkarl 24 points 5 days ago

H1Bs don't strike. If they really want to piss off working class magas these oligarchs should tell them why they don't have universal healthcare yet and it's pretty closely related to the reason why they want compliant tech workers who don't or can't unionize effectively.

[–] benignintervention 24 points 5 days ago

Musk:

[–] Reality_Suit 22 points 5 days ago

So they can take advantage of there not being a global minimum wage. This is the real reason for the fear of a one world government. You won't be able to have something produced for cheap in China and sold at an inflated price in the US if there were a global minimum wage. Corporations (and racists) hate open borders.