this post was submitted on 09 May 2024
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[–] [email protected] 192 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Half of those meetings are business MBAs asking "Why isn't more getting done on this project?"

[–] marcos 94 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The other half are about useful things, like what to do next, how your interfaces will look like, and "if you need help, just tell me, I can escalate it".

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago

Oh, and how to prepare for the meeting on staging the discussion for the rollout of the plan for the new strategic initiative (first iteration)

I’m not exaggerating by that much, tbh.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (2 children)

As opposed to non-business MNBAs of course

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Isn’t that just the NBA? And what are those guys doing in business meetings?

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Dunking on other projects.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Embarrassed after the WNBA had a killer season

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Major in Not Business Administration? :D

Also:

MNBA may refer to:

  • 2-Methyl-6-nitrobenzoic anhydride, a condensing agent used in chemistry laboratories

  • Mongolian National Basketball Association

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[–] [email protected] 186 points 1 month ago (4 children)

The job is defending people who get work done from people who don’t get work done.

[–] enbyecho 32 points 1 month ago

LOL. So true.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

This is the perfect description.

[–] Skullgrid 7 points 1 month ago

Ex test lead, this 100%.

My job was to organise the work between the workers, keep the business away from my subordinates, and only waste their time when they had the complete information being asked for the specific reason.

And if I wasn't doing one of the things above, my job was to pick up the horrible things that no one else wanted/I had experience and domain knowledge in (eg : accessibility testing)

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[–] slazer2au 125 points 1 month ago (7 children)

0900 till 0930 - 15 min standup meeting.
0930 till 1000 - focus time.
1000 till 1100 - Pre meeting for customer meeting at 1100.
1100 till 1200 - Customer meeting.
1230 till 1300 - Post Meeting catchup.
1300 till 1330 - focus time.
1330 till 1430 - JIRA board update meeting.
1430 till 1500 - priorities review meeting.
1500 till 1645 - focus time.
1645 till 1730 - EOD standup.

[–] AlternatePersonMan 84 points 1 month ago (2 children)

"Are you don't yet? Why aren't you done yet? Help me update infinite plans that will be outdated in a week. Also, I just promised a bunch of stuff... all that stuff we already promised, I think you can do that faster."

When I was a dev, I once had a PM with no technical skills that decided he would "learn to program to help catch us up"... He did not succeed.

[–] krashmo 50 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Hey, at least he had the right idea. He saw that the delay was due to a lack of skilled workers and tried to fix that problem instead of just talking more about the project. That's more awareness than most PMs have in my experience.

[–] Maalus 34 points 1 month ago

If a PM has enough time to try to learn programming on the side, then they are a shit PM. A PM should shield the team from unneccessary meetings, be the main initial contact point and the initial refinement guy. Those are 4 seperate jobs at once.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (3 children)

PMs act that way because people above them ask for updates regularly. Bad PMs don't know how to push back. If you need things done faster, the answer is usually "we need more resources".

[–] TheBat 10 points 1 month ago

If you need things done faster, the answer is usually "we need more resources".

Like having 9 women to make a baby in a month?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"we need more resources" is bounded by the rate at which you can incorporate new teams members without absolutely destroying your productivity, or having a bunch of untrained fools running around breaking things (of course the later is standard at many places already, so I guess it doesn't always matter).

The right answer is usually : "No". Or at least "Prioritize". Or "This is what we need to get it done" at which point they might start to get software takes time to make decently, and they don't want software that doesn't work decently in the first place.

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[–] 9point6 58 points 1 month ago (6 children)

You get focus time?

Also, what the hell is the point in an EOD standup if you're gonna have another one in zero working minutes?

[–] krashmo 45 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

That concept is lost on so many people and I don't understand why. One of the last teams I was on had two weekly meetings. One was 9:00 AM Monday morning and the other was 4:00 PM on Fridays. They were both running through all of our projects and always seemed surprised that the Monday update was the same as the previous Friday update.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It is to their advantage to ~~be~~ act surprised, therefore they are "surprised", see? This was your "opportunity" to show how dedicated you are the company, having worked all weekend long...

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago

It isn't particularly hard to call this out. Just say "I haven't done anything since Friday." And leave it at that.

Be comfortable with silence.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

You get focus time?

They need to give you some time to answer emails from management 🙄

[–] marcos 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

"Focus time" is the name of the meeting.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Because even if you’re not working, you’ll probably think about problems overnight

[–] 9point6 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So what's the point of the EOD one?

I honestly see zero benefit in it unless it's a 24h operation with a shift handover.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 month ago

Sitting in a meeting right now....

This is such a an accurate comment.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (5 children)

We do standups twice a week. At worst they run a half hour for my team of about 10 people. Usually we're done in 15-20 minutes. Please tell me it's just an absolutely made up joke that you have an hour and 15 minutes of stand up meetings every day. I would shoot myself.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Does a lot happen between an EOD standup, and the morning standup? Pick a lane lol

[–] slazer2au 15 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well yea, plenty happens between 1700 and 0900. That is why the 15 min standup takes 30 min.

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[–] model_tar_gz 91 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

No, this is incompetent management.

Senior engineers write enabling code/scaffolding, and review code, and mentor juniors. They also write feature code.

Lead engineers code and lead dev teams.

Principal engineers code, and talk about tech in meetings.

Senior Principal engineers, and distinguished technologists/fellows talk about tech, and maybe sometimes code.

Good managers go to meetings and shield the engineers from the stream of exec corporate bs. Infrequently they may rope any of the engineers in this chain in to explain the decisions that the engineers make along the way.

Bad managers bring engineers in to these meetings frequently.

Terrible managers make the engineering decisions and push those to the engineers.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago

TIL my company has only bad managers.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago

Good managers go to meetings and shield the engineers from the stream of exec corporate bs

Was lucky enough to work with one... once.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There is a reason I keep refusing to take the "Lead" position. I know what I'm good at.

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[–] Skullgrid 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

bruh, your company has money for all those layers in your lasagna?

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[–] Aceticon 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I came here to say the same.

People in the technical career track spend most of their time making software, one way or another (there comes a point were you're doing more preparation to code than actual coding).

As soon as you jump into the management career track it's mostly meetings to report the team's progress to upper management, even if you're supposedly "technically oriented".

Absolutelly, as you become a more senior tech things become more and more about figuring out what needs to be done at higher and higher levels (i.e. systems design, software development process design) which results in needing to interact with more and more stakeholders (your whole team, other teams, end users, management) hence more meetings, but you still get to do lots of coding or at least code-adjacent stuff (i.e. design).

[–] BilboBargains 42 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do you have excess creative energy?

Pour it into discussion that achieves nothing of value.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

Have you considered writing your own projects that you have to hide from your employers, and be careful with whom you discuss, so as to avoid the legal complications of the company owning your work?

[–] KISSmyOSFeddit 41 points 1 month ago (12 children)

Yes, that's generally the job of a senior engineer.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Agreed. Use your experience to shape the direction your teammates are moving in. Be an architect, and let them handle your light work.

[–] Windex007 17 points 1 month ago

It depends VERY much about the content and invitees of the meetings.

If you're there to give your expert engineering feedback, awesome. If you're there to receive the information you need in order to provide expert engineering feedback, awesome.

So often, I find, meetings are too broad and end up oversubscribed. Engineers are in a 2 hour meeting with 10 minutes of relevance.

There are serious differences in meeting culture, with vast implications oh the amount of efficacy you can juice from the attendees.

[–] Ledivin 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Ehhhh, depends on how your titles work, and I would argue that's at least a little odd. Most senior engineers I know are ~50/50 code/oversight, at worst. Once you get to Principal or Staff, though, you're lucky if you write 50 loc/week.

Senior rarely translates to something like architect anymore, it's at least a level or two up from there.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (2 children)

The beauty of titles like this is that they're absolutely meaningless.

You can't compare them between companies, sometimes even departments, you can't compare them between different industries, and you can't compare them between countries.

I'm a senior, and my job is currently to sit in meetings most of the day to convince BAs, architects and other team's leads not to make stupid decisions. The rest of my time I'm communicating the results back to my colleagues and writing escalation mails, because Steve again tried to re-introduce his god awful ideas that we shot down five times before and I'm hereby voicing my concerns in a business-like tone, but actually would want to exterminate him and his entire offspring.

My old project, however, was completely different and I actually spent 70% of my time actually writing code and 20% code-related meetings.

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[–] SpaceNoodle 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Staff Engineer: 10 hours of meetings each day

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

I've worked in a few places, all with senior engineers, including myself as a senior engineer, all of which the senior engineers spent most of their time actually engineering. If I went somewhere as a senior and was told I was going to be in meetings all day, I would quit because that's management, not engineering.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)

No it isn't - a senior engineer should be a technical track professional that's excellent at their job - it's likely there will be a fair amount of mentorship but that can take many forms including PR reviews and pair programming.

A technical lead, architect, or a front line manager is the one that should be eating meetings four to six hours a day. And absolutely nobody should be in eight hours of meetings a day - even bullshit C level folks should be doing work outside of meetings. Eight hours of meetings means that you're just regurgitating the output of other meetings.

I'd clarify that having occasional eight hour meeting days isn't bad, there might be occasional collaboration jam sessions that everyone prepares for... but if your 8-5-52 is solid meetings then nothing productive is happening.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Of course there's no point in trying to rationalize this 'cos these people use meetings to try justify their usefulness to the company (HR does the same with random activities), so you end up drawing red lines with invisible ink...

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

I wanted to write code with more authority and higher wage, not sit in endless meetings and explain to somebody why it's 8 story points instead of 5 🙄

Anti Commercial-AI license

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

Talk to your manager, they're really fucking failing to support you. When I was a senior data architect I had about two hours of meetings a day.

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