this post was submitted on 11 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 45 points 9 months ago (4 children)

It's actually complicated.

I spoke with a PhD physical therapist about this (his undergrad work was in exercise physiology), and at about 40, all other things being equal, you're going to start losing muscle mass. By "all other things being equal", I mean that even if your diet is identical, you exercise at the same intensity, and through some previously unknown magic (e.g., drugs) you have identical hormonal levels to your 18yo self, you're still going to end up losing muscle mass and strength when you get somewhere in your 40s. He explained the basic outlines of the mechanism, but I simply don't have the science background to understand it, or to explain it.

That loss of muscle mass means that you're simply not going to be burning through calories. Muscle burns more calories per kilogram than fat does.

So, that's part of it; there's just a certain level of decline that's going to happen with age, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it.

But the other part is that activity levels do tend to sharply decrease for men (and women) outside of their 20s, while what they consume does not. Once you start having kids and/or other responsibilities, it's hard to find time to maintain the same level of physical activity that you might have previously had.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago

Thanks for the depressing info.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I read an interview about a year ago about the topic of starting healthy until old age. The main points were:

  1. You start to lose muscle mass at 30 years and for the average person you lose about 1% per year. In the article, they said that this would mean 50% of muscle lost when you hit 80 so it must've been on average (otherwise you'd lose about 40% total).
  2. If you need to make a choice between endurance and strength exercise because of whatever constraints, you should go with strength. Ideally, you do both. But strength is ultimately more important as it keeps your metabolism working long term and also prevents accidents. After all, it's what keeps you skeleton in place.
[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I know that people above 30 are still able to gain muscle mass--all other things being equal--but my speculation is that it slows down. That is, that rate of improvement compared to someone in their 20s will be slower, and it will be even slower in your 40s, etc., until you reach a point where you can no longer gain enough strength to offset your losses from age.

I also suspect that the use of illegal anabolic/androgenic steroids could counteract that, but at the cost of other, significant health risks (heart disease, stroke, liver damage, etc.).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Oh for sure. My comment was rather to add than to correct.

It's not a big problem to have less muscle with age. But having 90% of a once trained body is way better than 50% of a body that just sustained an unhealthy lifestyle.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

Thank you for your insight

[–] Carnelian 3 points 9 months ago

Hi, sorry for responding to a week old post,

This is called “Sarcopenia”, or, the age-related loss of muscle mass.

The good news is that it can be nearly entirely mitigated by strength training. To be clear, you can’t be an 80 year old with the same strength as a 30 year old powerlifter, but you can as an 80 year old maintain the strength of an average 30 year old. It’s been demonstrated very consistently, even if you only start training in your 70s

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago

In my case, children soak up time and when I do get out for a walk I have to keep pace with a young child instead of marching up a mountain, I'm no longer working on my feet all day, and I spend my free time sitting down and eating chips because the day is exhausting instead of taking acid and going to a rave.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 9 months ago (4 children)

beer

guys that don't drink a lot of beer are by far much better off than men who do and have the same physical activity. probably just my own observation and not scientific but it does have something to it.

[–] FunkFactory 7 points 9 months ago

This is 100% it for me

I freaked out when I looked at the scale after the holiday season, probably 10kg over what I consider my ideal. Cut beer entirely, 2 months later and I've dropped it all already 👀 I'm not really a big eater but alcohol packs so many calories

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

This was a plot point in parks and rec to explain Pratts transformation off screen from Andy to Starlord

[–] ohlaph 3 points 9 months ago
[–] AnUnusualRelic 2 points 9 months ago

That's why it can't really be helped.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Calories in vs calories out is true at any age.

In the 30s, life is starting to stack up. Career, kids, etc. These things easily dominate your schedule and can keep you from eating well, or hitting the gym or sleeping as much as is needed.

Also, years of beer can catch up to you and there's so many calories in that.

Also get your blood work checked. If your hormones aren't where they need to be, it may be harder to build and maintain muscle. Muscle burns more calories at rest than anything else so slipping muscle quantity can result in a snowball effect of weight gain and unhealthiness.

Beer.

[–] ohlaph 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

If you're going

[–] Skyrmir 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The hidden issue is general aches and pain. That noise an old guy makes when he stands up, means he doesn't get up, and doesn't move around as much. But it's real easy to sit down with a pint and a burger.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

I've been above average fit with an above average activity level most of my life. Since 42, I've had less time walking around without aches and pains than with.
I may be an outlier, but lots of people I know that were sporty 10 years ago aren't sporty anymore, and it's not because of not wanting to

[–] ohlaph 3 points 9 months ago
[–] evasive_chimpanzee 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Contrary to popular belief, your metabolism does not really slow down as you age.. From the time that you are 20ish to around 65ish, there is no inate change in how your body uses energy.

People use "metabolism" as some magic word, but it's literally just how many calories you burn by moving around a doing stuff and keeping your body temperature constant. Your metabolism slowing down would just mean that you are doing less stuff.

Some people don't like that information because they like to think that getting out of shape is due to factors outside of their control (and it definitely is for some people due to all sorts of life circumstances), and the fact that it is in your control makes them see it as a moral failing.

I see it more optimistically: when you age, you aren't fighting the tide. You do have control over your body composition. It gets inherently a little harder once you get up to your mid sixties, but even then, the difference is not as large as you'd expect.

[–] TheSambassador 0 points 9 months ago

Metabolism may not change on average, but that doesn't mean it can't change or differ wildly between people.

Look, I know some people who obsess over their calories, eat perfectly, and exercise constantly, and they still barely hit their "goal" weight/fitness. And I know other same-age people who do no exercise and eat fast food for almost every meal who are still skinny.

Maybe age isn't necessarily the reason, but we can't pretend it isn't easier for some people to lose/maintain weight than others. There ARE differences in metabolism.

[–] MrTomS 11 points 9 months ago

Mid 50s here. One of the biggest factors for me has been how long it takes to recover from the wear and tear of being active. In my 20s I could be sore in the afternoon from exercise in the morning but be fine by evening. Now 48 hrs is typical. At my age I'm only focusing on maintenance and injury prevention.

[–] stoly 9 points 9 months ago

It's all about time and commitment. When you're younger, you tend to be more active and need extra exercise less. As you get older, your need to move in order to survive diminishes. If you don't compensate for it with good exercise habits, then you're going to gain weight.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

Alcohol and sugary drinks. Stick to water and the occasional tea or coffee, so long as you don't add sugar. Coke and its ilk are liquid death, avoid at all costs. Giving up those high sugar content drinks will be hard if you are used to them, though...

[–] orangeNgreen 6 points 9 months ago

For me, it’s just a complete change to my exercise routine. In my 20s, with no kids, I was running about 5k (3 miles or so) most days, with some weight lifting mixed in. These days, with a full time job, two young kids, and two dogs, plus all of the other responsibilities that seem to come with adulthood, I’m lucky to squeeze in a 15 minute bike ride here and there.

Even with all that, I try my best to eat as healthily as possible. Over the last 5 years I’ve gained about 8 pounds, which could be worse all things considered.

[–] Delphia 5 points 9 months ago

Oh theres so many reasons. The highlights?

Theres a strong probability that you are time poor, this kicks your ass in two ways. You get a lot less incidental movement. You drive more and walk less, order things to be delivered instead of going and getting them. Secondly sacrificing sleep which leads to...

Testosterone dropping, not only does your testosterone start to fall in your 30s, low sleep has a terrible impact on T production. Which means a whole bunch of lovely side effects including lower lean muscle mass, depression and fatigue. Oh also being overweight also fucks your T levels...

Lets throw in the fact that most of us have indoor jobs that are very sedentary, which ruins your vitamin D levels. Which leads to fatigue, depression, poor sleep (theres that sleep again) and a bunch of other shit.

The thing is its actually not that hard to stay in shape. Its about a sustained conscious effort and finding things you like that work FOR YOU. Theres no secret diet or workout plan. Calculate your Macros and eat accordingly, find an exercise you LIKE doing and do it often. Dont have a vision board or a body goal, learn to love the process and its the easiest thing you can ever do.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Hormones. Specifically your thyroid can dramatically change your weight by Hormones production. In my case my thyroid has almost completely shutdown. I could just eat a carrot every day and still gain weight without synthetic hormones. I believe it can sometimes go the other way make it hard to gain weight. I strongly encourage having hormone levels checked and balanced. I wish I'd known about this 20 or 30 years ago.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Sorry but you cannot create weight out of nothing. A single carrot a day will not generate a caloric surplus, and you need sustained caloric surplus to gain weight.

That said, getting your hormones checked is very important

Edit I'm sure whoever downvoted me has news on thermodynamics that the scientific community would be interested in

[–] darganon 3 points 9 months ago

Gaining weight means you're eating too much food.

The less you move your body, the less your body will be able to move. Do some weight lifting and stretches. You don't need to be going for a physique, just build/maintain some strength.

And time makes it difficult.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Can only speak to my own experience but mainly, it was having kids. I went from working four nights a week with plenty of time to eat properly, exercise plenty and ensure my mental health was doing okay.

Suddenly I've got two young kids (5 & 2) and I've had to switch to a 45hr a week day job that's got significantly less walking than my previous one. I don't see my partner (she works when I'm on my weekends) and so we sort of just eat whenever the kids go to sleep, which usually means we eat poorly, or a takeaway. And on top of that my mental health is in the toilet so I find it really hard to even want to take care of myself at times. Why spend an hour of my very limited free time going for a run or cooking a healthy meal when I could sit down, order food and play videogames before going to bed to begin another day if bullshit.

[–] pjwestin 3 points 9 months ago

Well, as I write this, it's 1:45 AM, I'm dead tired, and was supposed to go to the gym tomorrow morning, but instead of sleeping I'm sitting up with a squirming 14 month old who keeps farting himself awake because, despite my best efforts to feed him a balanced diet, he eats nothing but bread and dairy. So, I'd say my biggest contributing factor to weight gain is, "insomnia-induced lethargy caused by baby farts."

[–] Anticorp 2 points 9 months ago

You have less time and more commitments. You move a lot less. You get comfortable with your job, and life, and slowly lose muscle while gaining fat. With every pound of muscle you lose, it's easier to gain more fat. It becomes a vicious cycle. Add old injuries into the mix which make it easier to be sedentary, and you're in trouble. The solution is simple, move more than you do now. I kept hiking, and rock climbing all throughout my 30's and now 40's, and forced myself to stay fit. I also lift weights. As a result, I'm not fat, and neither are any of the friends in my hiking group. But I have other friends who just work, then go home and drink beer, and the pounds have crept upwards over the decades and now they are very fat. Don't let that be you. Keep moving!

[–] cymbal_king 2 points 9 months ago

For anyone in the US, you can ask your primary care doctor for a referral to a Registered Dietician if you are having issues with excess body weight, limited muscle gain, or other diet related health concerns.

Body weight really is all about calories in vs calories out regardless of age. Eating bulky vegetables is often recommended because they are filling without being calorie dense (as well as the vitamins). Low intensity activity (standing, walking, gardening) is associated with the largest decreases in body weight because it does use some calories but doesn't increase appetite as much as high intensity exercise. Although some exercise is still good to keep up muscle mass and heart health. Yes, as you age it can be more difficult to create/maintain muscle mass as your biology changes, but there are always health benefits to eating healthy and staying active.

I really like the Nutrition Source for science-based nutrition information in case anyone is interested!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I don't really keep track of it (I am a mostly-stable skinnyfat), but the most recent thing is the local trail closed for maintenance (after I bought a cheap+geared ebike and rode 131 miles) 6 months ago. Just the section I'm near, blocking the village I'm in off from both directions and no clear set end date. Feels like some real Truman show shit. Before that happened I was at least doing something and did notice bike riding became significantly easier after the longest trip I made, probably gone now.

I also have untreated health issues (that is not new, and it's mostly not things that are likely to be fixed easily/at all except maybe some of the symptoms after long deliberation/trial-and-error) such as not sweating enough to stay cool, POTS (heart rate easily climbs, putting me out-of breath), lack of energy etc. (I'm also in a semi-rural area, shut-in)

Also poor sleep and probably cortisol, and I need to eat more vegetables though that varies a lot. And yeah I often eat too much (some of it is garbage frozen/canned stuff) and even occasional carbs/sugars probably stay for a while since I'm not burning them. I'd go for meal replacement for at least some meals if it wasn't so expensive (also online purchases/shipping), I liked the flavor of original Soylent when I tried it a while ago (I tried DIY powder for lower cost, I wasn't good at it).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

I'd guess it's mostly genes. And not that it's pre-determined by genes and there's nothing you can do about it but for some people it simply just is easier to stay lean with little effort compared to someone else. I don't eat particularly "healthy" but I eat a lot at once and then I might go the rest of the day without eating. I regularly skip meals aswell. When you add in the regular gym workouts I've been doing for over a decade plus weekly mountain biking trips I guess it's no wonder I've still got that "swimmer body" in my thirties. Also I never really "got into shape" either - I never just got out of it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

Pastries. And it takes like 1hr of gym to deal with one delicious croissant.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago

The smallest brisket in the supermarket weighs at least 4kg.