448
Texas’ Border Stunt Is Based on the Same Legal Theory Confederate States Used to Secede
(www.thedailybeast.com)
So losers using a loser playbook.
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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He’s not a stand up guy
I see a lot of people in comments sections, including this one, saying we should let states secede because they would lose federal funding and this would punish those states. I get that a lot of this is people joking around. But I would like to point out this isn't an effective way to punish the fascists who are actually causing problems.
The fascists in control of those states are usually wealthy individuals and won't be harmed by this at all. The people who will be harmed by this is our fellow people. Also, not everyone in those states identify as Republicans. Take Texas as an example where a majority of people are not Republican.
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/state/texas/party-affiliation/
Only 39% of Texas adults identify as Republican or lean Republican. 21% have no lean and 40% identify as Democrat or lean Democrat.
We are much better off pressing sedition charges against Abbott and his cabinet members if he actually tries something more serious than this or keeps this stunt going for too long.
So you don't think the US would sanction the wealthy individuals or their companies?
I'm sure most of those Republicans already have enough wealth to live out the rest of their lives comfortably. I don't see those rich individuals struggling financially over sanctions that only affect them if they attempt to engage in trade or move assets outside of those 25 states.
It seems like sanctions would hurt the economy of those states which then financially hurts all of the people living there who are not already rich.
While I do agree that people tend to ignore the "normal" people who wil lbe impacted by this: The reason many of those wealthy individuals are wealthy exists in other states. If they are given the ultimatum of "Get the fuck back in the US or we are claiming spacex" then they very rapidly are "punished".
That said: the "Texas is really purple" argument holds a lot less water than people tend to claim. Ever since 2020 (really before it, but that was the big push) there has been a strong push for "democrats" to move to Texas. Because... it is so much cheaper because they aren't paying for social infrastructure and they get a lot of the NIMBY benefits while pretending they are "good people". LOTS of DINOs. They might not be full alt-right magats but there is a reason that the blatant gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement doesn't have much pushback.
That isn't to say that there aren't large numbers of people in Houston and the like who just have no mobility and are increasingly worried they will literally become slaves. But also understand that places like Austin would very much vote for a "moderate Bush-era republican" if the option arose.
If they are given the ultimatum of “Get the fuck back in the US or we are claiming spacex” then they very rapidly are “punished”.
Sure, that hurts Elon Musk. I would be interested to know how many of the Republican politicians in red states actually have a majority of their wealth and assets in blue states. Sanctions have to hurt the people in control of the red state governments to even be worthwhile.
Because… it is so much cheaper because they aren’t paying for social infrastructure and they get a lot of the NIMBY benefits while pretending they are “good people”. LOTS of DINOs. They might not be full alt-right magats but there is a reason that the blatant gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement doesn’t have much pushback.
I'm not convinced this disqualifies them from our sympathy if a hypothetical secession attempt by their state government causes them undue misery. I've been looking into people moving to Texas.
This is one of the articles I found. It seems like most of the people moving to Texas are going to vote Republican. I would like to read the articles you've seen on the topic as I couldn't find much on Democrats moving to Texas other than this one. At the end it mentions one family moved to Austin and they seem progressive. It's an interesting demographic shift regardless.
But also understand that places like Austin would very much vote for a “moderate Bush-era republican” if the option arose.
Again I don't have a lot knowledge about Democrats in Texas. It seems like if that were true they would run some neo-conservatives that were like Bush. These are the candidates that the Democratic Party is fielding against Ted Cruz in Texas.
They seem progressive, on the surface anyway. Especially this guy:
“I’m a progressive and I do not apologize for it,” Gutierrez said. “That’s the way we win in November, not by moving to the middle, but by inspiring every Democrat in this state to go get new voters and go meet these people.”
I would interested to read any polling date or news articles you've seen about it to be more informed on this.
"Stunt" is the right word. This is a stunt.
If this goes on for a week or even a month, maybe even a few months, ignoring him would probably be fine. The issue is if this continues indefinitely. If states can ignore orders from the executive branch and supreme court rulings as long as they want, from now all the way to election day for example, then they have achieved an effective secession.
We can't have 25 states all ignoring the federal government and, out of those 25, ten plus states sending members of their national guards to illegally block the US border patrol for the next 10 months and claim we having a functionally united country. At that point that block of states is for all intents and purposes is a separate country. I don't see why if they can get away with this indefinitely, which they have yet to do, why they wouldn't ignore the federal government on all issues.
People are saying they do something like this every year. I remember people talking about civil war and sedition for years now. I cannot on the top of my head remember an example where this kind of incident happened in my life time. I do remember studying the Little Rock Nine in school however.
People are saying it's an election year, of course they are doing this stunt. Are half the states in the US going to get to be their own country every two years then? Election years don't mean politicians get to do whatever they want as long as it's to help their party win an election. Biden doesn't have to act reflexively every time Abbott or some other Republican does something like this. But it's going to be pretty strange if 4th of July roles around this year and this is still going on.
OTOH, if Republicans manage to pass something like a nationwide abortion ban, I will be all for states defying the federal government and blocking federal agents from doing their jobs.
Yeah, but the Republicans are controlled by fascists. They will not hesitate to immediately federalize the national guards of blue states because they won't have to worry about elections in a christofascist dictatorship. What the Republicans are doing benefits them now in a liberal democracy. It won't benefit Democrats in an authoritarian dictatorship.
States not complying with a Republican federal government won't be an issue to the fascists, because they will almost certainly add a bounty hunter provision to laws that they can't expect blue states to uphold. Armed conservatives can try to arrest their neighbors they suspect of getting an abortion. The cruelty is the point. Not one person in a blue state might even get sent to prison over a nationwide abortion ban, but women suspected of getting an abortion may find themselves placed under citizen's arrest by bounty hunters with guns. edit: typo
Which is too bad, because I’d love “Texit” to happen
You really do not, here is why in no particular order:
- When Texas does, other red states will follow.
- Once that happens, forget human rights for anyone other than white men. Arrests/executions of trans folks, for example, will be a thing.
- Blue folks in the red area will be trapped and unable to get back home.
- War will break out, millions if lives will be lost.
- Don’t count on the military. Much of it id in red states and many members of the military are republicans.
Less likely, but far worse scenario could happen in addition to the above: Russia, Iran, North Korea, China, and other countries take advantage and attack parts of europe and possibly parts of the US. The US is a large part of NATO, so NATO will struggle to respond to the combined threat.
I understand wanting to see it happen, but much of what I said is very likely to play out if TX follows through.
You don’t need to believe me, but just think it through.
Gotta disagree with the last two bullets. I think it's pretty unlikely any active duty military switches sides. So you're left with the largest military arsenal on the planet and one of the largest standing armies vs the Texas rangers, which likely would just haul ass to the US. I mean why wouldn't they? They don't have infinite weapons and personnel on their side.
They'd have it over in an afternoon if there was an armed conflict at all.
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(9 replies)
It wouldn't happen in the sense that they would never succeed, but it would be amusing to see them try.
Texas can’t even keep its own electric grid up because of their isolationist attitude. I’d honestly love to see how it would go if all the tax and federal aid were to suddenly dry up. That’s not even getting into having a passport to leave the state, tariff on imports, taxes on exports, then getting retaxed to come into the United States.
I wonder how firearms legislation would wind up.
Texas also most likely would be unable to produce its own ammunition and would have one fuck of a time establishing trade routes that would be forced to go through the Gulf of Mexico, an easy target with only one way out between two corridors. Given that the whole thing was over Mexico border enforcement, something tells me land trade wouldn’t be very reliable if it were feasible.
Texas has a lot of farmland, but do they even have enough to successfully feed their population on their own? And with enough diversity to keep the population satisfied? And they would be totally on their own because the U.S. would blockade them on every side except the Mexican border and there's no way in hell Mexico would make a deal with them.
Just wanted to throw something else into the discussion.
I’ll preface this that a) I’m no economist, and b) I’m Canadian.
Let’s harken back to circa 1996 when the Quebec separatists were once again threatening to leave. Also, they were going to keep the Canadian dollar as their currency.
I was having a chat with a coworker, who did have a minor in finance. He pointed out that if Quebec separated and kept the Cdn dollar, their fiscal policy would be dictated by Canada.
So reframing this for Texas: if they seceded, would they keep the USD? If not, how quickly would they be able to design their own currency and mint it? What exchange rate would they use for their citizens and how quickly could they get the new currency into the hands of everyone, including out in the boonies?
I’m completely glossing over any considerations around what might happen if they kept the USD.
Lets be honest if Gov. Abbot really tried to secede he'd likely find himself facing his very own "home grown" insurrection one way or another
Say what you want about the U.S., they have a lot of experience quietly funding local "freedom fighters" and I doubt this would be any different.
The whole thing would be a massive shitshow and would not get Abbott anything he wanted.
I also doubt that his corporate masters would allow him to tank the stock market like that, because that's what would happen. Something tells me ExxonMobil and AT&T (both headquartered in Texas) would allow it to happen. They'd put a bullet in the back of Abbott's head before he could sign the articles of secession if they had to.
Eh, fuck that. Let's let them try it and round up all the racists and criminals. Why should we all lose land over this? Plus, there are plenty sane people in Texas... They should inherit the land for putting up with all those fucking crazy people.
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As a South Carolinian, I'm afraid for my mixed race family. I'm going to be getting my son a passport (my wife and I already have ours) and I'm seriously considering fleeing the country if the Confederacy rises again. I will not live in a nation where my wife and son may not be considered equal. I've lived here my whole life, and I used to think we were past all the racism and stuff like the Klan. The last 8 years have shown me how wrong I was. I've lost a lot of former friends to this, and I'm ready to go back to living somewhere I don't have to worry about basic human rights, democracy, and the basic decency of my neighbors.
Can't even be seditious originally. Guess we know where he cribbed his letter from now. Anyone really surprised he's a fan of the last group of racist traitors we had?
I think U.S. marshals should be sent in to arrest Abbott.
In the very least.
Seems to me that Texas is baiting Biden, and he hasn't taken it yet.
Judging by how these sorts of Texans tend to treat their women, I'd wager that baiting is one thing they are quite good at.
This is just more dumb political posturing in an election year. This happens so frequently it is nearly meaningless
Except the brinksmanship intensifies every year. For the longest time, during the regular years, Republicans never really considered shutting down the government, resulting in America defaulting on its loans. The House Freedom Caucus is trying to do exactly that and getting mad that they can't.
And Republicans mostly privately talked about getting rid of Medicare and Social Security. Paul Ryan would be like, "What?! No, I never said we'd get rid of it! We just to restructure it!" or some bullshit.
And Republicans certainly never assaulted the administrative state the way they're doing now. Project 2025 is an existential threat to the American we've come to know. It's not an understatement to say that it will set us back almost every a century.
Idk, I see this all as a ploy in a grand scheme to fuck shit up.
And Republicans are the only one of the two major parties who has proven themselves able to both have a long term plan and commitment to see it through. This is a joke until it isn't.
This is so much more dangerous and destructive than you suggest.
Agreed. All federal money, property, and resources out of Texas, post haste.
Bye TeQxas.
Hmm, I don't know... It seems like Texas has a pretty high GDP. My state (California) has a higher one, though. I guess "everything's bigger in Texas" mostly just refers to their penile compensation vehicles.
Here is some data on the subject... Texas not only has a GDP under a third of what CA generates, but they also require so much federal aid that they clock in at being 30% worse than CA in that area as well. Still, they are far from the worst in this area.
Well yea because Republicans are nothing but tax evading, self righteous racists. Their soul has been sucked out by their own courting of psychopathic hypermasculine morons who couldn’t lead their way out of a telephone booth.
Conservatives are using cartels to push migrants to the border. GUARANTEED.
It seems a little...idk the word, but to compare this to civil war directly seems a bit baity.
This is an interesting situation. Regardless if it was Texas, Cali or any other state that boarders another country.
Abbott’s accusation that the federal government has breached the Constitution by having “broken the compact between the United States and the States” is almost identical to South Carolina’s 1860 declaration of secession.Furthermore, Abbott’s letter espouses the fringe theory of constitutional law known as “compact theory,” popularized by Confederate states during the Civil War era and supported by Confederate President Jefferson Davis
Sounds pretty accurate to me.
Let's hope we see him rolling out of Texas in a dress...
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