this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
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[–] [email protected] 125 points 7 months ago (8 children)

Realistically I imagine that having access to resurrection would have fairly dramatic consequences on how a society applies punishment. It'd probably be a crime of some sort to revive the executed, sorta equivalent to breaking someone out of jail, states might be more harsh with handing out death penalties when it is possible to undo them if new evidence is found, and the remains of the executed probably would be carefully stored and locked up to prevent unwanted revival and to have in case the state decides to bring someone back, assuming the body is needed for it.

Might also get things like a monarchy which kills off heirs to the throne after a certain age and stores them careful to revive when the current monarch dies or abdicates, to prevent scheming between them to increase their place on the line of succession or take over from the current ruler early, and to ensure they are young and healthy when they take the throne.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I started reading Jhereg by Steven Brust, and it takes resurrection magic into account with the world building. Part of assassination involves hiding the body until the resurrection window passes. IIRC, the legal penalties for murder are also much less severe if you just kill someone, rather than make sure they're permanently dead.

There are also "Morganti" weapons. They're pretty much the Black Blade from Elric, so they eat souls. So not only do they make resurrection impossible, but the victim is extra dead, not even existing in an afterlife. As a result, using one is a high crime, punishable by death... by Morganti blade.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago (1 children)

using one is a high crime, punishable by death... by Morganti blade.

Man, if I were a soul killing assassin, with knowledge that souls and the afterlife is real... Getting my soul dissolved vs going to my eternal reward ... sounds like a pretty good deal.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Death row is just instant execution, and the date you would be killed is now the last day you could be revived with common means.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If a trial is ongoing during the date you'd become unrevivable or it's considered important to extend the date for some other reason, maybe they just revive you and kill you again to reset the timer

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

maybe they just revive you and kill you again to reset the timer

The Gentle Repose industry will object...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Gotta wonder how that goes for innocent people that decide that the afterlife is cool.

Must suck for victims of cults and devil bargains that get dragged into the hells regardless of their deeds.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (11 children)

In the Forgotten Realms, the Kingdom of Cormyr has strict penalties against resurrecting monarchs. The penalty is death for the resurrector, and castration + exile for the former king. And the famed War Wizards of Cormyr absolutely have the capability to enforce that law.

I'm not certain (and don't have either my notes or the novel those notes were taken from to hand), but IIRC a resurrection of someone formerly in the line of succession puts them at the end of the line, even if they were as high up as the king's eldest son prior to death.

This naturally creates an issue if the prince dies and is resurrected while a long way from the capital, and returns to the kingdom to find the king has also died while he was gone. Who died first is going to matter greatly, but might be rather difficult to determine.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

These are great world building ideas. Thanks!

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

You forgot revival being included in the sentence, possibly multiple times over.

[–] creditCrazy 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Imagine getting burned on the stake multiple times.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

This has been stored away in my gm vault for demonstrating what an evil government might mete out as punishment.

PCs walk into town and there's a public execution happening, it's all horrifying screams burning flesh etc, until it finally stops and a hush falls over the gathered crowd. The silence is broken when chanting, faint at first, gradually grows louder and louder until it feels like you can hear it in your mind, just when it feels intolerable a flash emanates from the stake, and the screaming begins anew.

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[–] [email protected] 90 points 7 months ago (6 children)

Nah, this totally makes sense. Revivify costs 300 gp, which is about 5 months of work for a skilled hireling (or 4 years for an unskilled one). Laws are only for the poor.

If you convert to the relative value of labor instead of the real life value of diamonds, it's probably something like $40k to $60k to revivify someone. Seems like enough cash on hand to somehow get away with murder.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Fun fact: that's exactly how much it cost for a single day of the OJ Simpson defense.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago

Hey, that is a fun fact!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

It's fucked up that you can just pull that fact out of thin air and drop it on a DnD post.

Take my upvote you sonnovabitch

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Going with the cost of living equivalent, it's only about $15,000, which I think still does the job of pricing out the poor

[–] Archpawn 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

But in that case, they'd probably fine you so that they get that money instead of just letting those diamonds be destroyed.

Also, Zealot Barbarians can be Revivified for free. They'd probably want to close that loophole.

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[–] qarbone 65 points 7 months ago (7 children)

The punishment is a sentence of death. Not "being killed". You are to be placed in the state of death for the crime. That's why you don't get to walk away if a lethal method fails. You can keep reviving them, but they'll be incarcerated and killed again until it sticks. And I'll put the rest of the party in contempt of court for attempting to subjorn lawful punishment.

[–] CheeseNoodle 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

But reincarnation is canon in D&D so that would require hunting down that soul and repeatedly executing them for all eternity.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

It's canon for elves, not so much for everybody else (unless you mean the spell). Though that sounds like some Mercy Killer thinking right there

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[–] mandelbrotvurst 50 points 7 months ago (5 children)

choose how you die

Old age.

[–] Rednax 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sure thing. You will do so in that cage over there. To the guards: He already had his last meal.

[–] Archpawn 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Wouldn't he starve to death before dying of old age?

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago (2 children)

In earlier editions, Ghosts rapidly aged anyone they touched by draining their life force. Just saying.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"big ass tiddies, your honor"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago

"Not that merciful. Guards, off with his head!"

[–] AeonFelis 46 points 7 months ago (2 children)

One should expect that in a world where resurrection is a well known possibility, courts will take that into account. Even if it's expensive and can only be performed by a selected few, the law should make sure that one cannot escape punishment by simply having money and connections.

Then again, when you look at our world...

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Using our world as a template, it probably would be illegal to revive a convict, but itd be an open secret that a few well placed bribes and a bit of influence is all it'd take to bend the rules

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And that's how you get your whole party executed.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago (1 children)

tbf, the rest of the party is probably awaiting sentencing

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Someone will have to keep a Revivify scroll up their ass to make this work

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[–] Zoboomafoo 35 points 7 months ago (2 children)

That's why in my setting criminals get tossed into a kiln if they're sentenced to death without parole

[–] [email protected] 28 points 7 months ago

death without parole

🤣

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That only works if they can't be brought back with resurrection spells.

[–] Zoboomafoo 7 points 7 months ago (4 children)

With a 9th level slot, sure

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Of course you let them do it. You also let the victims' family be horrified by the miscarriage of justice and make it their life's work to seek revenge.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

I like this. It's Faust, but make it fun. Keeps things moving

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

And their complete mistrust of the justice system.

Vive la revolution anyone?

[–] A_Union_of_Kobolds 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Gotta be able to get to the body within a minute for Revivify, right?

[–] MimicJar 7 points 7 months ago

Yes, although you could use Gentle Repose can look like a post death ritual and give you a ten day window.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Isn't this just the Jesus strat?

[–] WaxedWookie 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

That'd be if he sentenced himself to death to appease himself for everyone else breaking the rules he wrote, then re-vivified himself.

The ol' single deity circlejerk.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The Holy Trinity is just 3 demi-gods in a trenchcoat.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

I would at least grab the body from the corpse pile later. It’s a little less suspicious. Unless there is a time crunch then the rogue might get animated instead.

[–] RIP_Cheems 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Death by russian roulette

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago

Lord Vetinari approves

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The Rogue gets stabbed by a Red Wizard blade, made by the Red Wizards of Thay that prevents any sort of resurrection by a cleric.

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