this post was submitted on 25 Jan 2025
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And if you'd decide to leave, where would you go?

Context for why I'm asking: I'm trans and currently live in Minnesota, I moved here from Florida so I have some idea of how miserable big moves can be. I can get EU citizenship which makes me very lucky, but... Do I sit here and hope Minnesota can protect me from πŸ₯­ or do I try to build a life somewhere else, again?

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

Yes because living here is a death sentence for me. Kinda like how it was before the Holocaust. Living in Germany when Hitler came into power was a death sentence for people like me.

[–] captainlezbian 3 points 13 hours ago

Really depends. Can I get a job outside the US quickly? Am I a citizen able to leave at will?

I'm in the process of moving to a blue state, but I'd be open to Europe

[–] [email protected] 43 points 2 days ago

in a heartbeat. most modern countries are better than the united states in demonstrable, meaningful ways.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I can get EU citizenship which makes me very lucky

You said "can get", implying you haven't done so yet. My advice? Get the EU citizenship. Simply getting EU citizenship doesn't commit you to actually moving overseas.

That said, things aren't that bad right now, but it'll take time to process the paperwork. By the time things get bad enough to force you, you may not have the time to wait for your application to be processed. Plus, depending on the number of refugees, they may change the rules on who qualifies.

Worst thing that happens is that you spend some time, effort and money and you get some peace of mind, which isn't a terrible thing at all.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This is the right answer. OP has a very privileged advantage not many people have, and not taking advantage of the opportunity would be such a waste, given they are actually considering it in the first place. And you’re right, getting citizenship doesn’t mean they have to move immediately, it just opens the door for options if shit hits the fan and they actually need to leave.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 day ago

Best thing is that, if they do have to move, they could get married and save sometime else as well.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Yes, but I don't have any real means to get a work visa unless I move somewhere in the developing world that I don't speak the language.

If I could get a visa for almost anywhere in Europe, I'd be gone by the end of the week.

[–] gusgalarnyk 3 points 1 day ago

I made this decision about a year and a half ago and moved to Germany. Lgbtq are welcome here as much as they are in the US.

Moving out of America to a county with worker rights is like time traveling into the future.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

Without hesitation. I'd love to live in a civilized country, but unfortunately I was born in the US.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I personally would not. I've lived most of my life now in a very blue area in a very red state, and I love it here. But, while I put the "B" in LGBTQ and am in a committed relationship that's far from monogamous, I'm superficially a cishet white man, and in general I'm treated with more respect by people who have irrational prejudices than many others.

I use that respect to advocate for the rights of others, and I'm not going to stop being an advocate in Texas. I have friends who are gay, lesbian, and trans who feel the same way and aren't going anywhere. I would like them all to fight by my side, but I also don't begrudge anyone who feels like they need to leave this state for safety reasons. This applies particularly acutely to parents of trans children who have to leave to access gender affirming care and not be subject to prosecution.

All that said, if you're not an EU citizen but are eligible for citizenship, that does sound like an enticing option. How long would it take you to establish citizenship there? At that point, you'd have dual citizenship and could freely move on either continent. So it boils down to whether you want that or not. Minnesota seems like a fine place to live (but way colder than I could ever tolerate), but so do some EU countries. How will you adapt to the culture? Will you be alright living in an entirely different culture or will you miss US culture too much? What does your current support system look like, and how would you feel about leaving it? You've got a lot to think about!

[–] Postmortal_Pop 2 points 1 day ago

Advocates in the front, armaments in the back. Remind your folks to buy guns.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

As a European, I'm biased and say go for it! They being said, Europe has a lot of different climates and cultures to offer so kinda depends what your looking for.

In a perfect world (where you have the money and time to do so), I would suggest you backpack around for 3+ months and see which vibes you like the most. At the very least, I would suggest visiting somewhere in Europe first (even just one place) if you haven't done so

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

If you don't mind the cold of Minnesota, maybe Norway could be a good fit. My sister and her trans boyfriend seem to thrive in Trondheim.

You might prefer a larger city in a more southern country if you want the option of proper city life. I hear the Netherlands is particularly good despite being rainy, not to mention very built up and close to other metropolitan centers. But if you like the outdoors, Trondheim probably fits well. It's pretty well developed for it's size, too.

Can I suggest packing light and moving around in the EU to see if you find a favorite place?

[–] Atropos 8 points 2 days ago

If you're tired of Minnesota, come to Portland! We've got your back here.

But I'd get that citizenship anyway.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago

Already left in 2003 or so.

Healthcare financial risk was an issue, and I was there on an H1, so I just went home.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I've a tentative job offer to move overseas, but I'm hesitant because it would be rough for close friends and family.

America is done, but a part of me feels I should stay and go down with the ship, attempting to do whatever positive things I can in my local community.

I'm torn.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago

On the flip side, if you did go and your friends/family felt more of a push to go (maybe things get worse) you could be a bridge for others to have an easier time coming to Europe. Just a thought but I understand moving yourself would also be challenging. I have experience with it so I'm aware

[–] 2ugly2live 4 points 2 days ago

Yes! Only hesitation would be my cat, but I've been looking into digital nomads for a bit.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

It depends on so many factors. How well you can and more importantly if you are willing to appear "passing", and/or if you are in a local area that is accepting. You will likely never be "proud" of the USA again, sadly, if that's a thing for you. It's worth grieving that.

On the other hand, big moves REALLY suck! And that's not to be undertaken lightly, even if only for consideration of timing. Would you be abandoning family, possibly someone who you want to become family but aren't ready to move to another country with? That kind of thing.

It helps to think it all through, be kind to yourself in the meantime, and think like: "which would I later regret the most, looking back?" You may legit want to wait a few years first, or, you might not. Maybe either way give yourself a year to process it all. Or don't, and if that's your call, then don't look back:-).

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Yes, Ireland or Canada. And I'd consider a move back if I saw a pattern of behaviour that I could call a sound rejection of fascism.

There's no way someone like me has that opportunity though.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

Yes, Ireland or Canada. And

So, Newfoundland? They have a pure and true Kilkenny accent, if you trust the opinion of an Irish IT recruiter I spoke with a year or so ago.

And it's close if you want to visit home or, ahem, have family visit you for a while.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Skipping a lot of pitfalls by assuming like for like standard of living, family stays together, similar job, and no question whether we'd get in or not, probably one of the scandiavian countries. I'd need to do some research, but there's one of them (or more?) I thought that had both super high taxes (wait for it) and also a super happy population with a wide array of well thought out public services.

I'd settle for any country where I could be reasonably likely not to encounter death camps or civil war within the next few decades, though.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"Oh wow, houses in East Kilbride are really cheap, can't wait to move there and gaze out my window at all the mountains and highland cows!"

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete arseholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Wait, is this /s or no? Do you guys also have a rapist Nazi oligarchy in charge? Damn. Nowhere is safe right now.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

That's a quote from Trainspotting, a brilliant movie.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Christ on a bike mate, you wouldn't survive half an hour in a central Scotland flat-roof lol

Edit - this an awright cunt - https://youtu.be/bTcgCVsa-Pg

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I plan to move to Uruguay soon. It has a lot of aspects that fit my wants in a country.

[–] MisterNeon 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I have never fit in America, but I have no delusions I would fit in any other country. I think Canada is fed up with us Americans, so the closest culturally related country isn't an option.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Europe has a lot of different cultures that range from relatively close to the US (UK, Ireland) to ones that are more different but still not all that far off. I mean think about it, the US was built by immigrants from all over Europe that brought their different cultures with them.

If I may, perhaps somewhere in Europe is somewhere you'd fit in better. No guarantee course but I felt compelled to at least mention my thought

[–] MisterNeon 1 points 1 day ago

Thanks for the sentiment, but the chances of the EU granting citizenship to me is very low. Including any sort of ancestry claims; I don't believe I qualify.

[–] Skyrmir 5 points 2 days ago

Yes, England or Spain. Refitting my boat for the crossing now. The boat has done it before, but I haven't. It's going to take some work, and the financial side is brutal.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago

Luxembourg, Belgium, Norway, Slovenia

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago
[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Yeah, started the process in 2017 when this shit show started. I've been getting so tired of saying "I told you so".

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I mean, probably, but realistically I suspect that I wouldnt have very much luck were I to attempt it. Were I somehow to have a guaranteed shot at it, I guess I'd probably be thinking about either Ireland or the Netherlands? Honestly I feel like if actually given the choice, Id want to be doing a lot more research first.

[–] DrSleepless 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't believe that works.

I suggested Norway because it's in Schengen, but the UK is both out of the EU and not in Schengen, unless I'm mistaken.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

You are correct unfortunately 😒

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I fear I will soon loss my job soon because of the current USA political environment (fascism).

I've been planning for years to earn enough money to escape.

I am going straight to China if I can earn enough.

Urban environment, Great civil infrastructure, and I'd be able to spend the rest of my life as a professor and do research.

[–] Coreidan -1 points 1 day ago

As long as your decision includes awareness that facism is on the rise in America. Be very sure that is where you want to be when the lid blows off.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yes, ireland or china