this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
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Defense attorneys said the use of ketamine, fentanyl and potassium chloride could cause ‘excruciating suffering’

Utah officials said on Saturday that they are scrapping plans to use an untested lethal drug combination in next month’s planned execution of a man in a 1998 murder case. They will instead seek out a drug that’s been used previously in executions in numerous states.

Defense attorneys for Taberon Dave Honie, 49, had sued in state court to stop the use of the drug combination, saying it could cause the defendant “excruciating suffering”.

The execution scheduled for 8 August would be Utah’s first since the 2010 execution of Ronnie Lee Gardner, by firing squad.

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[–] TheDoozer 116 points 5 months ago (5 children)

So to preface, I am absolutely and without reservation against the death penalty, so any state-sanctioned murder is unacceptable to me.

That being said, if they're going for painless, why not just a captive bolt stunner the their brain stem? Like, having them lie back in a massage table with a container for the blood (heaven forbid the audience should experience the discomfort of gore with their death spectacle), and just pop it when it's time. Guaranteed to shut them off, mess is handled, suitable for a casket, and no suffering. They wouldn't even have a chance to feel it.

And if the thought of putting a human down like cattle is disturbing to you, good. It should be, just like any other way we would keep somebody locked up waiting to be killed.

[–] mecfs 48 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Honestly, the guillotine was the peak. Every new method since then is simply more for the viewers comfort than the actual person dyingz

[–] kn33 35 points 5 months ago (1 children)

*as long as the blade is kept sharp

[–] mecfs 22 points 5 months ago

are there a significant number of reported “botched executions” with guillotine? Even if the weight is blunt, it is so heavy and comes down at such a force that it would likely break the spine and destroy the brain steam and cause a near instant death.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Only problem with that is open caskets and decapitation like that isn't instant. The brain is still alive for a bit.

[–] mecfs 8 points 5 months ago

Yep. About 2-3 seconds is the estimate. Unless you are obliterated in a fireball, there’s no way for death to be truly instant.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 5 months ago

Or just plain pure nitrogen. Not the way they incompetently did it a while back where the prisoner suffocated due to his own exhaled CO2, but pure nitrogen while venting his exhalations.

[–] disguy_ovahea 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I’m also against the death penalty entirely, but I’ve always wondered why they need to be conscious. Why can’t they put them under general anesthesia, then push the chemical while they’re unconscious?

[–] TheDoozer 43 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That is, ideally, what they want to do. However, to do it properly you would need a doctor, and doctors won't help because of the whole "do no harm" thing. Kind of against their whole thing.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Have you been to Utah? There's probably a few "good Mormon" doctors who would do it, citing deep scripture regarding blood atonement and that kind of BS.

[–] Cort 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah and there's probably a few actually good doctors on the medical board who would yank their licenses in a fucking heartbeat for participating.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Because applying anesthesia is nor easy, requires years of education and a medical degree, and not anesthesiologist is going ti participate on it.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Only if you are worried about keeping them alive

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Fucking up the anesthesia could also lead to full body seizures and projectile vomiting.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

As a welder who has been trained to be very afraid of peacefully going to sleep in a forever nap, I have never understood why inert gas asphyxiation isn't widely used. It's literally easier than falling asleep and you can use the same gas over and over again.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago

Alabama tried that and managed to screw it up. You have to remove the carbon dioxide in the exhales to prevent the feeling of suffocation, and they didn't provide enough nitrogen flow to do that. Took like twenty minutes of clearly desperate gasping and convulsions for the guy to pass.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I really agree. State sanctioned murder is unacceptable to me as well, but if they insist then let’s be humane about it.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

The problem is the very pro-death penalty camp wants the dying process - not the being dead part after - to be the punishment. The pro-humane camp is generally anti-death-penalty enough they don't get a seat at the method-decision table.

[–] FlyingSquid 31 points 5 months ago (8 children)

"Whatever. As long as we get to kill a man who committed a crime more than 25 years later. Because that's what we call Utah justice."

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[–] homesweethomeMrL 19 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Utah.

The Oklahoma of Arizona’s Texas.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

Stealing this.

[–] eodur 4 points 5 months ago

As an Oklahoman, this feels accurate.

[–] Treczoks 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Stop calling it "execution". Call it what it is: Murder

[–] nnjethro 7 points 4 months ago

Whether you agree with capital punishment or not, "execution" is the more accurate definition. "Putting to death especially as a legal penalty".

Execution is a penalty for murder.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Guillotine. Effective, repeatable, instantaneous.

But I think it overdose of marijuana should do the trick. Nobody would ever claim that was cruel.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Overdosing on THC is basically one long panic attack, which occurs waaaaaayyxy before you even come close to dieing. I think, some people might consider this cruel.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

That's kind of like the people who try to commit suicide with Tylenol. They think it'll be painless, but they don't realize that over the course of the next few weeks their organs will turn to jelly and they'll be in incredibly pain.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It's almost physically impossible to overdose on THC.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

*lethally overdose on THC

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Have you ever overdosed on weed? It’s fucking horrible

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Pedantic, but:

The LD50 for THC is so hilariously high that you will physically lose the ability to move your body and consume more THC long, long before you reach a point of potential toxicity. From a technical standpoint there is no recorded event of a THC "overdose" ever occurring, like literally ever in human history, and boy have we been trying over the years. It's easier to die from drinking too much water than consuming too much THC.

Now clearly what you're referring to is just having had too much, "greening out" as the kids say, where you can gain a lot of anxiety and lose a lot of bodily control. And yes, that sucks, a lot. Panic attack city right there. But that's not an overdose in the proper, dangerous sense of the term.

I only even bring this up because with cannabis being such a hot button political issue lately and being on the brink of federal legalization, accurate information about it is more important now than ever. And more often than not I usually see comments like this just replied to with "lol u can't overdose on weed idiot" with no further context and that's not helpful to anyone.

You can definitely take too much and have a bad time, but if you manage to find a way to legitimately overdose on THC, Willie Nelson would like to know your location.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

but if you manage to find a way to legitimately overdose on THC, Willie Nelson would like to know your location.

gather round, everyone! let me introduce you to the winner of today's internet.

[–] lemonmelon 7 points 5 months ago (4 children)

You can definitely take too much and have a bad time

You've just alluded to a toxic reaction due to overdose. The term overdose does not exclusively refer to the median fatal dose, nor does it hinge on the risk of lethality.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

An overdose doesn’t mean you die

[–] FlyingSquid 4 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Who gets the fun job of cleaning up all the blood?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago

An independent contractor who charges $300/h. The actual work is done by a sub-sub-contractor's minimum wage employee who's expected to bring their own cleaning supplies.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

The same people who clean flats where someone died alone and was only discovered weeks to months later because of the smell.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Servpro, Crime Scene Cleanup, or Aftermath Services.

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