submitted 3 weeks ago by Stopthatgirl7 to c/workreform

Anyone tired of answering emails and calls from their boss after work may soon be protected by law in California.

A bill has been introduced in California legislature that would give employees the "right to disconnect" from their jobs during nonworking hours.

Assemblymember Matt Haney of San Francisco first introduced the bill, Assembly Bill 2751 in February, which would allow employees to disconnect from communications from their employer during nonworking hours.

If passed, California would be the first state to create a "right to disconnect" for employees. Similar laws have already been enacted in 13 countries, including Australia, Argentina, Belgium, France, Italy, Mexico, Portugal and Spain.

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[-] [email protected] 67 points 3 weeks ago

This isn't already a right?

[-] Landless2029 37 points 3 weeks ago

In my state being called into work requires a 3 hour minimum payment.

So a manager texting me to go respond to an email would be a 3 hour charge.

Our work culture was set to leave people alone off the clock due to this.

Now that I'm a salary employee I can see this being an issue. When I login in the morning I can see chatter at 11pm on work stuff.

Thankfully I'm not expected to answer to anything until my normal hours.

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[-] Kase 26 points 3 weeks ago

Pfft, I've had friends who worked fast food jobs where they regularly got called in during their off hours/days. From what they told me, they had to commit to not just answering the phone, but showing up anytime their employer asked them to, no scheduling or prior notice required. This was apparently something they could get fired over refusing. It's bonkers.

This is in the US, but not California.

[-] Mirshe 2 points 2 weeks ago

Yup, my old grocery store required this as a part of being full-time. You couldn't refuse a shift, couldn't swap hours, and had to be able to come in when asked unless the absence was preplanned or a medical emergency.

Needless to say, almost all of the full-time people had no lives outside work, at all.

[-] [email protected] 54 points 3 weeks ago

Middle Managers in shambles over this

"But how will I get my rocks off to knowing I can strangle my underlings with infinite meaningless metrics‽"

[-] krashmo 16 points 3 weeks ago

Is it really a widespread thing for people to get in trouble for not doing this? I've never answered an email or phone call while off work or on vacation and not once has anyone brought it up. The only people I see doing this are the people that do it of their own free will.

[-] TexasDrunk 17 points 3 weeks ago

I used to get in trouble for missing calls and texts out of hours because they expected it. They expected it because I usually answered. I stopped and got in trouble a few times. Then they started calling someone else.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago

Likely you've suffered in less noticeable ways, like delays in promotion or pay increases

[-] Viking_Hippie 9 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Is it really a widespread thing for people to get in trouble for not doing this

Yeah it is. Remember the whole "quiet quitting" bullshit panic? That was about people doing this and bosses (plus the pro-corporate billionaire-owned mainstream media) pretending that it was the death knell of businesses.

I've never answered an email or phone call while off work or on vacation and not once has anyone brought it up

Good. That's exactly how it should be. If they're not paying you for it, you're not on call. That should be a given.

The only people I see doing this are the people that do it of their own free will

Unfortunately, that's far from true. Lack of regulations. An obscene power imbalance stemming mainly from lack of unionization. A business culture that heavily encourages ruthless exploitation.

These conditions combine to make many if not most bosses abuse their workers in any and every way not specifically illegal and oftentimes even THAT doesn't stop them.

This law and effective enforcement of it is VITAL for labor rights and the mental health of workers

[-] Sakychu 8 points 3 weeks ago


[-] g0d0fm15ch13f 36 points 3 weeks ago

Imagine what hellscape would need this to be a law

[-] [email protected] 27 points 3 weeks ago

Ultimately, it should be a law. Companies will always want to exploit their workers whenever possible, and the entire point of a government is to enforce the will of the people against things like corporations that are too big for any single person to fight. It's basically the concept of "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to fear," but applying it to companies instead of people, because the people should be free, not the corporations.

[-] _sideffect 35 points 3 weeks ago

I never give my personal phone number to coworkers, and my work laptop is shut down for the night

[-] [email protected] 32 points 3 weeks ago

California trying to make life better for workers. I'm here for it.

[-] BallsandBayonets 29 points 3 weeks ago

None of these laws would be necessary (I would hope) with a proper safety net (universal healthcare, UBI, etc). A job does something shitty, you can afford to leave! When we support people we empower them to stand up for themselves.

At least, these are the things I think about as my "no one wants to work anymore" boss rants at me about how everything would be better if the government wasn't involved in capitalism.

[-] Mostly_Gristle 10 points 3 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure that's the exact reason why we don't have those things. Harder to exploit people when they're not scared and desperate.

[-] [email protected] 24 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I'm working in a European branch of an American business with headquarters in SF. We have to provide on-call support for software services that we create. Engineers from the European office are paid for on-call duty shifts, however American engineers are not paid for the same job. I wonder whether this law will change things.

[-] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago

Holy shit i really need this. Ever since my manager quit, my supervisor has basically decided to go total anarchy and do whatever she wants. Including adding us to the schedule without saying anything then deducting points for no-show, or blowing up our phones about said situation.

[-] [email protected] 27 points 3 weeks ago

Including adding us to the schedule without saying anything then deducting points for no-show

IANAL but that sounds like a labor law violation

[-] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago

Well, I did get mad and read the california labour laws one night in their entirety and sadly it was within legal grounds SOMEHOW. But doesn't surprise me either considering this new law seems to allow calls about that still, too. Which i would imagine is the main gripe people would have with out of hours contact. Fucking bullshit, man.

[-] minnow 25 points 3 weeks ago

IMO you should report the things to the labor board and let them decide. You never know what you might be missing with your own read through of the rules.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 3 weeks ago

In this case I will take your advice and see what they say for sure. It's been getting annoying but I can't find a job in the area with comparable pay for my position so it's worth a try if it means not quitting.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago

The law as proposed allows them to contact employees for emergencies or for scheduling. So as long as it’s about scheduling employees can’t safely ignore it.

[-] [email protected] 6 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, I sadly realised this and mentioned it in my other comment. It's really unfortunate.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

deducting points

My friend, everything's made up and the points don't matter. Just need to look for a similar job. Ask your friends and former coworkers.

[-] fubbernuckin 3 points 3 weeks ago

Man, if only similar jobs even existed in some fields. Friend of a friend wrote a script to apply to around 1000 jobs per day last year (comp sci roles) and still took around 6 weeks to get their first interview. Other friends in the field have been searching with no luck for months now.

[-] Sanctus 22 points 3 weeks ago

Me getting called four times a night by random coworkers asking for random shit:

Worker protections are necessary. Without them our employers would all treat us like Frieza did Krillin

[-] TropicalDingdong 12 points 3 weeks ago

Frieza did Krillin

Too soon.

[-] CarbonatedPastaSauce 6 points 3 weeks ago

What in the hell am I looking at here? My brain is not processing this.

[-] Feathercrown 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Took my eyes a long time too. He's being sliced in half

[-] njm1314 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is one of those things that you shouldn't have to have a law to protect, that right seems inherent and inalienable. Yet we do we so do.

[-] MedicPigBabySaver 12 points 3 weeks ago

More than once over the years I've told admin, "not interested", when they asked me about taking a Supervisor position.

Nope, I punch out and clear my mind about work. I guarantee that wouldn't be possible at the Supervisor level. I won't even work as a Field Training Officer. The little bump per hour isn't worth the hassle of doing evals and discussing each newbie with management.

[-] Fredselfish 3 points 3 weeks ago

Even if this law were to pass. California governor bet you will veto it. He got to cater to the 1% if he plans run for president.

[-] Diplomjodler3 8 points 3 weeks ago

I'd answer if my boss called outside of working hours. But only because I know he'd never ever do that if it wasn't really urgent. But I'm under absolutely no obligation to do any work related stuff when I'm not clocked in.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago

What is going on that this is necessary? I've never been expected to be reachable outside my working hours.

I've been on call, but those are scheduled, and I got paid if anything happened. I can only think of a very few unscheduled calls, including one where I had to call in and didn't even have to unmute, but you bet your ass I still counted that time on my timecard and got paid for it.

[-] ChapulinColorado 13 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

From previous experiences, it is the shittiest jobs that have the highest expectations. Regardless of what anyone might see on this change, at least this puts it on paper.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Salaried workers have no specific hours. Their employers own them.

EDIT: Meaning to say that they aren't paid for hours worked, so there is nothing to lose and everything to gain from a money perspective for employers to get them to work long hours and call whenever.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago

Wait a second, you don't have working hours in the US just because you're receiving a salary? My contract states that I have 8h of work per day, 5 days a week, and that office hours are understood as 9 AM to 6 PM with 1h for lunch, and that's that.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

It depends on your agreement with your employer. Unless your employment contract specifically states hours for you to work during, there is no limit on when your boss can expect you to reply to your emails.

Of course, hourly non-salaried workers get paid by the hour, even though some hourly workers can still be expected to work ridiculous hours by their employers.

[-] Copernican 5 points 3 weeks ago

I thought they already had that during working hours. I swear sometimes while I'm working on the east coast hours, my west coast colleagues signs on at 12PM EST and signs off of 530EST and aren't around to answer my 6:30 EST pings. Meanwhile I'm waking early for EU client calls, and handling 9PM meetings with Asia offices. So it goes. I don't think we can have it both ways where you can be remote working from anywhere yet not be on the hook to work hours during the defined operational times. I'm not working 9 to 9EST, and take long breaks mid day if I have evening meetings, but there are operational realities of needing to talk to people to get work done and those times need to be defined.

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this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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