this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2024
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US Authoritarianism

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[–] themeatbridge 37 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Living a decent life alone in America. The costs go up if you want a family.

In my Inaugural I laid down the simple proposition that nobody is going to starve in this country. It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

The minimum wage should be $96,000 right now.

[–] _sideffect 24 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Doesn't the picture next to it show the cost for a family?

[–] TheBat 3 points 9 months ago

Redefine family as two (or more) partners and their pets. Ezpz

[–] themeatbridge 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Right, but the headline is incomplete.

[–] Anticorp 34 points 9 months ago (1 children)

The national average is dragged upwards by cities like NYC, and San Francisco. You can live for much less money in thousands of places across the USA. That said, the cost of living has skyrocketed over the last 4 years by an insane amount. Our inflation index is being manipulated and doesn't accurately reflect how much real prices have increased. We've all seen dozens of products that are more than double the price from a few years ago. But if you point this out, the data heads will call it vibeflation and claim it's not real.

[–] FilthyShrooms 6 points 9 months ago

Agreed, it would be more accurate to show the median because of these outliers

[–] KillerTofu 22 points 9 months ago (3 children)
[–] themeatbridge 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Looks like these numbers came from a report by SmartAsset, which took it's numbers from the MIT Living Wage Calculator. Here's a link to their methodology:

https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/methodology

Relevant definitions:

At its simplest, a living wage is what one full-time worker must earn on an hourly basis to help cover the cost of their family’s minimum basic needs where they live while still being self-sufficient.

There are eight basic needs – food, childcare, health care, housing, transportation, civic engagement, broadband, and other necessities – that make up the cost components of the living wage, with an additional cost associated with income and payroll taxes.

EDIT: It looks like the SmartAsset report used their 50/30/20 rule to estimate their "comfortable" living wage. 50% needs, 30% wants, and 20% paying down debts. The MIT calculator bundles some needs and wants together, so it appears that SmartAsset teased out the expenses they categorize as "needs," e.g., food, housing, and transportation, and then they doubled it.

[–] SteefLem 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You can eat and sleep inside (something)

[–] KillerTofu 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

As long as that thing isn’t a car!

[–] SteefLem 2 points 9 months ago

Well…. Thats extra.

[–] coolkicks 20 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I still remember six figures being the key to posterity. And now you may still starve.

[–] Soup 1 points 8 months ago

We hit a point where it was a nice landmark and then when the moment passed we all got locked in on it. It’s not as fun to say the modern equivalent is some messy number far above it so we just got stuck instead.

[–] Anticorp 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How so? The graphic indicates you'll live comfortably with that income, not starve.

[–] coolkicks 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I’m in the family bucket on the right.

[–] asbestos 7 points 9 months ago (1 children)
[–] coolkicks 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

By eating them. Out of the bucket and full tummy.

[–] Cosmicomical 3 points 9 months ago

Close, the eating part is right, but the people to eat is not your family.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

235,000??? What the fuck that’s impossible for the VAST majority of families with kids. $96k is impossible for many adults, if not most. Goddamn

[–] tory 17 points 9 months ago (2 children)

The crux of this issue, why everyone has something to say about it: is because the word 'comfortably' seems open to interpretation. But it's defined in a way that makes sense here.

For the purposes of the referenced study https://smartasset.com/data-studies/salary-needed-live-comfortably-2024, they used the MIT Living Wage Calculator https://livingwage.mit.edu/ and extrapolated out total compensation needed to maintain the 50/30/20 rule, where 50% of your total income goes to necessities, 30% to entertainment and wants, and 20% to investments or debt payments.

So it's really not up for debate unless you'd like to argue against the figures presented in the MIT Living Wage calculator or the 50/30/20 'rule'.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Agree they list the rule - but like a mean vs median thing, are crazy cities like NYC or LA skewing the average?

We make about half the bottom-right picture, but I AM at about the 50/30/20 balance. Yes, worthless anecdote, but still makes $240k seem a tad high for a median.

I'll have to take a look at my spending and see where my splits really are. To the spreadsheet!

[–] tory 2 points 9 months ago

It does seem to feature estimates regarding the average rather than median, so you're right. Higher CoL areas would drive that way up.

Plus, upon further review, I realized the study only involved the top 100 most populated cities. That would for sure skew the number upward as well.

[–] alphanerd4 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

im like at least 3% sure the subtext is 503020 does not reflect the reality of if you can manage 100, closer to the actual median around 45k, then ==> follows some version of that is enough.,,.

[–] tory 1 points 9 months ago

It is worth mentioning that everything discussed so far was in terms of averages, not medians. The average salary is more like 58k.

[–] venoft 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

A bit misleading picture. So one adult is 96k, and a family of 4 is 235k. 2 adults would be around the 160k I guess, since they hare rent/mortgage. 2 children then cost around 75k.

Still, 96k for one adult? Seems high. They must factor in the highest rent and most expensive (middle class) car and vacations.

What is the source?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Yeah, their definition of “comfort” seems to be a solidly middle class experience of going to Disney world and…other middle class stuff? I live alone in nyc and I’m plenty comfortable, but I’m not making 140k.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How much are you saving for retirement?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

What retirement?

[–] Anticorp -5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Going to Disney World is middle class? Pretty sure that taking lavish annual vacations has always been an upper class activity.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 9 months ago (1 children)

No, going to Disney world and taking yearly vacations used to be considered middle class. On one income, by the way. We’re just so beaten down these days that we consider basic life enjoyment and time off away from the house “upper class.” I’m old enough to tell you it wasn’t, and it hasn’t been this way very long.

[–] Anticorp -3 points 9 months ago

I'm middle-aged and I don't know any middle class families that took annual vacations when I was younger. My upper middle class and upper class friends did though. How long ago are you talking here? In the 50's?

[–] themeatbridge 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Two cohabiting adults get some economy of scale benefit, but then children add the entire childcare category to the expenses. Housing and Transportation costs, the largest fraction of the budget, both see only marginal increases with each additional family member.

All costs took the average for the region or metro area. It really does cost $96,000 on average to live in America.

The source is a SmartAsset report that pulled data from the MIT Living Wage calculator. It takes the average regional costs for housing, transportation, taxes, etc, and then SmartAsset used a 50/30/20 rule to estimate comfortable living wages from basic needs expenses.

[–] Cosmicomical 9 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

nice, so if you and your partner both make 96k then yout children must only make 21.5k each.

[–] RIP_Cheems 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Are you fucking me? Tell me that is overestimate. I did not work my early life to get a good job just to be told it still not enough to live comfortably.

[–] johannesvanderwhales 4 points 9 months ago

The word "comfortably" is doing a lot of work here. Obviously plenty of people raise a family on less.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago

yup. pretty much 100k in a city of any appreciable size at least.

[–] Yokozuna 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

So around 80$ an hour for a single person. Hope you're trained in a specialized area of work. Maybe one day I can aspire to eventually become lower middle class.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago

You may want to check your math?

96k : $46/hr

[–] EnderMB 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

$318k for a family in NYC HAS to be bullshit, surely? The median salary is $74k. Are that many people struggling, or is the definition of "living comfortably" a stretch?

[–] alphanerd4 4 points 9 months ago

=T every indication is that living comfortably is well beyond the means of most people, and personally, with the definition laid out and used in this article, many agree it is a good measure,,.......... and most would agree that most (more than 50%) of people are living well below it.