this post was submitted on 22 Jan 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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[–] ummthatguy 88 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (6 children)

(Hope that sounds convincing, cause hell if I know)

[–] negativenull 35 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

That's kind of the premise of the John Scalzi book "Old Man's War". In the book, they take elderly people (aka Wise people), and put their minds/memories into young fit bodies. This, in theory, creates soldiers who are both Wise, and Young/Fit.

[–] teft 38 points 5 months ago (1 children)

young fit bodies

Young, fit, green bodies

[–] negativenull 11 points 5 months ago
[–] ummthatguy 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for the new reading suggestion!

[–] negativenull 15 points 5 months ago (4 children)

John Scalzi is an amazing author. You'll love it. Another good one by him is The Dispatcher. There's even an audiobook of this narrated by Zachary Quinto

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[–] Wogi 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

They just need a cerebral compensator.

Transported are kinda soft sci Fi, and plausible explanation for why a thing can't be done is easily hand waived by technobabble about a device that says it can be.

[–] SzethFriendOfNimi 11 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Besides, their little murder boxes anyway, so, it’s not really you or is it?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 5 months ago

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -Heraclitus

[–] Wogi 13 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Are you ever you? You are an amalgamation of experiences that changes from one moment to the next. You aren't the same person now as you were ten years ago, and you won't ever be the same person you are right now ever again.

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[–] marcos 14 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I don't know about you, but O'Brien would certainly know.

[–] ummthatguy 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

Of course he does. He just doesn't want her knowing.

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[–] FlyingSquid 69 points 5 months ago (3 children)

Keiko needs to be careful what she wishes for.

[–] FenrirIII 16 points 5 months ago

"Sir, a Mister Hanson is requesting to beam aboard."

[–] Thcdenton 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)
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[–] themeatbridge 55 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This happens in the episode where everyone prematurely ages, and they are sent through the transporter to make them their "normal" ages. There's no reason given why they couldn't do that all the time.

[–] Sludgehammer 39 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Even more relevant there was that episode where a transporter accident turns Picard, Guinan, Ro and Kiko into twelve year olds and nobody points out they just discovered transporter induced immortality.

What really gets me about that episode is all of the effected characters immediately want to return to their normal age and nobody says "Hold up, I'm very okay with a couple extra decades of life" or centuries in Guinans case I suppose.

[–] FlyingSquid 16 points 5 months ago (3 children)

They also forgot about the fact that Barclay was aware during transport meaning that somehow your physical body exists while you're being transported.

Really, the transporters work by power of plot.

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[–] FordBeeblebrox 15 points 5 months ago

Everybody except Guinan, she acknowledges childhood was long ago and wants to stay a kid and keep jumping on the bed.

[–] cybervseas 10 points 5 months ago

Doesn't Ro kind of linger on enjoying her childhood in a way she couldn't because of the occupation?

And yeah in Futurama, Leela decided to stay a teenager so she could have a childhood with her parents ♥️

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 5 months ago (8 children)

I assume there's some in universe reason why they can't / don't keep copies of the teleportation data, otherwise everyone would be effectively indestructible

"Oh no the captain got eaten by a space tiger"

"No problem, I'll teleport a backup from an hour ago, he'll be there in 5 minutes"

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago (1 children)

My first thought was wouldn't that reset our memories to that point too?

Granted losing some memories or being dead is a pretty easy choice, but using it to reverse aging or other physical things would be a costly one

[–] beebarfbadger 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Would YOU lose "some memory", or would you be destroyed and the transporter would recreate a person who believes to be you from a previous point in time?

And how do we know that isn't what happens every single time someone is beamed somewhere?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 5 months ago

Calm down Theseus

But yes, I'm on the "it's essentially a clone" and the original is killed side of that argument, so it would just be a copy of you that believes they lost time somehow until someone told them what happened

[–] ummthatguy 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

We do know they hold genetic templates, per Picard season 3. No reason they couldn't hold full templates for VIP's.

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[–] platypus_plumba 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

With zero knowledge on the series, I'll just go ahead and fill the lore:

They have tried it in the past with someone who died but the recreated body was just an empty entity. It had vital signs and reacted to stimuli, but it wasn't the person and didn't have a will to live.

There's no scientific explanation, it's one of the mysteries of life.

The end.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If you'd start this game, it's hard to end it. Immortality, swarms of clones created just for labor, identity steal, and worse of all – people would grow negligent and the series would lose any stakes.

I think that at some point everyone agreed that the cycle of life is a core of what makes us humanoids and pushes us to strive for self-improvement.

It also prevents societal degradation, because immortality goes hand in hand with tyranny and lack of meaningful natural change.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (12 children)

I was thinking about this as a deep philosophical question yesterday. Wondering, if that technology was available would I be totally unafraid of accidental death, knowing that I could simply be restored to a recent backup. I came to the conclusion that I would still feel, and act, the same as I do now. Which made me realise that I must believe there is something more to us than pure biology as the backup wouldn't be "me". I'm certainly not religious and have no concept of what this "more than biology" might be - it just came as a logical result of my feelings about my backup.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I would argue that the transport buffer isn't big enough, but I think they stored a pile of settlers in there one episode.

[–] grue 13 points 5 months ago

They've done that sort of thing a couple of times, but it's always been a dirty hack that happened in an emergency. For example, in the TNG episode "Relics," Scotty put himself effectively in stasis for 70 years by setting the buffer to continually refresh itself like DRAM, and in the DS9 episode "Our Man Bashir" there was a transporter malfunction and they had to wipe the memory of almost the whole station in order to find enough space to store the command crew's neural patterns, overwriting Bashir's holosuite program so the crew's likenesses replaced the characters.

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[–] [email protected] 29 points 5 months ago (9 children)

But wouldn't that also erase your memories?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

If they can selectively remove pathogens during transport, I see no reason they couldn't selectively choose which parts of things to revert to a younger state and what to leave as is for things like memory preservation.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I'm already leaning towards transporters "actually kill you and clone you" and the extent to which they can manipulate the "you" that comes out is making me lean even harder lol

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

"Hey Scotty, when you beam me back up, can you give me a huge rodney?"

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

There are multiple answers, with different degrees of truth

The patterns aren't (typically) stored long term, something implied about transporter buffers seems to indicate they can hold incredible amounts of data that starts to degrade very quickly. New patterns are taken each time they transport AFAIK.

But, instead maybe that "cell damage" is just part of the details you get when you retain enough pattern detail to include peoples recent memories.

But, instead maybe the actors age in real life and keeping track of making them look perpetually youthful with makeup would be really hard so whatever the excuse is it's just an excuse.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It's true. Also you die every time.

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[–] EdibleFriend 16 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I've never undrestood why it couldn't be used instead of surgery. Put the redshirt in that's all stab woundy and get a fresh redshirt out.

[–] raspberriesareyummy 14 points 5 months ago (5 children)

side effect: memory loss since last transport

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[–] andrewf 16 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

No

If the meme is correct that people are rebuilt at the molecular level, then cell damage would be preserved across iterations.

That said, if you have sufficient resolution and detail to rebuild someone at the molecular level, I see no theoretical limitation that would prevent actively using modified transporters to heal damage, etc.

That said, I subscribe to the philosophy that your subjective experience / perspective / consciousness ends the moment you're first disassembled by a transporter and never resumes (i.e. transporters are actually duplicators). So it's not the fountain of youth in any meaningful sense if transporting is modified to repair damage.

That said, I see no reason why a heavily modified transporter couldn't be used to Ship of Theseus your whole self cell by cell, thereby completely rejuvenating yourcellf without the pesky cessation of consciousness / death. So, yes, it could be the fountain of youth.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 months ago (2 children)

What if you went in with an empty stomach and came back after a night of binging on shore leave, alcohol, unsafe sex with strange aliens, too many nacho plates filled with guac, salsa and sour cream and an unhealthy amount of sweets, chocolates and fried food ... you're beamed back to the ship with an empty stomach again and no diseases.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Scotty, clean my arteries and erase this hangover.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

Captain Kirk every time he returned to the ship

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[–] DigitalTraveler42 11 points 5 months ago (2 children)

And just like that we have a Star Trek x Altered Carbon crossover

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Is it a copy or are the molecules sent?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (10 children)

I believe the molecules are sent.

[–] Wrench 15 points 5 months ago (3 children)

That's what they claim. Pretty sure it's just a convenient lie that the engineers tell everyone to keep morale up. That's the only explanation I can see for the officers always barely "making it out" of every single underdog scenario they jump into.

They've died dozens of times, but keep getting printed out and told they made it because they're special.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (6 children)

i mean it's effectively just cloning, which doesn't transfer any memories made after the last scan, since it.. isn't magic..

i think dark matter is the closest i've seen to a show that actually acknowledges that this is how that kind of tech would work, and it's a damn shame it was cancelled..

i imagine that in the trek universe the tech would be extremely regulated, probably only allowed to be used in situations where people are very likely to die and thus circumventing the death entirely. Now, with away missions that becomes more difficult as you can't strictly know when someone's actually dead, and i'd imagine the federation would look very dimly upon having two copies of people walking around..

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