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The "Just Kidding, but maybe not" kind of memes are both common in the tankie group as well in the right-wing group, which makes me thing it's just the same people with different costumes, also known as a reskinned model.
Sounds like political compass shit, left or right, but primarily in the "authoritarian" top half
The political compass has got to be the most bullshit metric, I'm according to the compos a left libertarian. It doesn't account for theory and for people who are marxist and understand that communism has not yet materialised. Anyway just a slight annoyance i have.
The Political Compass doesn't actually mean anything, you cannot simplify political views to a grid, moreover nobody is "authoritarian," people have different views on centralization vs decentralization. For example, Marxists believe in a fully publicy owned, centrally planned economy, whereas Anarchists believe in full horizontalism. I would describe the Marxist system as having more potential for democracy, as you have a unified system and thus your votes and voice covers a broader area, whereas an Anarchist would disagree, most likely.
It's that horseshoe again.
Far left and far right, hand in hand, both reminiscing for a 1950s that never existed. One in Russia and one in America.
"reskinned model", lol, interesting application of the concept. I like.
Horseshoe theory
Authoritarians are authoritarian first. Left or right is an afterthought. No horseshoes required.
That is the base of the horseshoe theory.
Only if you have a juvenile concept of political Spectrum. That only extends across one dimension. Leninists are barely nominally left-wing. In practice most of them are State capitalist and not at all left wing.
In practice social Democrats and even Democratic socialists tend to be more left-leaning than leninists. And don't feel a reactionary need to Slaughter or imprison those that disagree with them regularly. I mean if we are going by the providing social benefit to your chosen class of people qualifies a socialism. Then that would make the Nazis socialist. Which they most definitely we're not.
Why would democratic socialists be less left-leaning than social democrats?
The order was not meant to be significant. And purely just a construct of a stream of consciousness speech to text. Though you aren't wrong.
Yes, the theory comes from the superficial observation that the actions of the nominal extremes look very similar. And when your head is being crushed by the boot of authoritarianism you don't care if it is the right foot, or the left foot wearing it.
At one time there were many concepts of what Socialism is, and at the time nazism was A socialism, of course completely opposite of the concepts that survived.
Hardly. Lennonism still exists. It's highly similar. In fact Lenin and Stalin helped Hitler invaded Poland. And exterminated their own ethnic polish population in Russia. Leninists still defend these actions to this day and hypocritically criticize "the west".
Yes, I agree with you.
I just wanted to add that at the time "socialism" was any answer to the question "how to structure society so its members benefit the most?"
Nazism was such an answer, and it was "eliminate all who don't contribute".
Of course the concept of socialism later evolved and got more strict so that Nazism doesn't count anymore.
The concepts of socialism were pretty nailed down by the 1930's, and anyone back then who was familiar with any of the leading socialist ideas would not call nationalism or an ethno state socialist.
The Nazi's called their party socialist because it was popular with the working classes at the time, but they were not actually socialist in policy whatsoever, it was only ever a branding/optics choice.
Consider at that same time the Spanish Civil War was happening, which involved a huge faction of Anarchists spreading the much older ideas of Kropotkin and Bakunin, and they rightly called the Nazi's Fascist, and absolutely did not consider them a twisted offshoot of socialism.
If you go far enough left, you end up back on the right.
I would argue authoritarian 'leftism' is just a misnamed right wing ideology wearing the sheepskin of socialism, where as Anarchism / Libertarian Socialism is the 'real' far left.
Lol I literally got banned from ml for "horseshoe theory"