this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024
883 points (98.9% liked)

News

23262 readers
3926 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Puerto Ricans cannot vote in general elections despite being U.S. citizens, but they can exert a powerful influence with relatives on the mainland. Phones across the island of 3.2 million people were ringing minutes after the speaker derided the U.S. territory Sunday night, and they still buzzed Monday.

Democratic Vice President Kamala Harris is competing with Trump to win over Puerto Rican communities in Pennsylvania and other swing states. Shortly after stand-up comic Tony Hinchcliffe said that, “I don’t know if you guys know this, but there’s literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. I think it’s called Puerto Rico,” Puerto Rican reggaeton superstar Bad Bunny announced he was backing Harris.

After Sunday’s rally, a senior adviser for the Trump campain, Danielle Alvarez, said in a statement that Hinchcliffe’s joke did “not reflect the views of President Trump or the campaign.”

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] OhStopYellingAtMe 165 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Puerto Rico needs to be a state already. Washington DC too.

[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 week ago (4 children)

What happened "no taxation without representation" that the colonists fought for in the war of independence? Apparently it only applies to white people.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

It definitely only did apply to white people. And only men.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Landowning white men to be precise.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

It was a lie from the start, it only ever applied to a few wealthy old white men who didn't want any cuts to their profit margins after the British fought a costly war to defend them from French and Native retaliation.

[–] raef 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's why they don't pay federal taxes

[–] [email protected] 46 points 1 week ago (1 children)

While they dont pay income taxes to the IRS, they do pay customs taxes, federal commodity taxes, and federal payroll taxes (Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment) to the IRS, which sounds alot like federal taxes to me.

[–] raef -1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

It also feels like it's something different because they aren't supposed to go into the general fund, but advance payment for specific benefits

[–] irotsoma 8 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

But they don't have a say in how the money is spent or whether the tax should exist. So it's still the same issue whether it's for a specific purpose or whether or not they benefit from it. It's the freedom of choice that they still don't have.

[–] raef -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

There is an attempt to conform to the taxation/representation issue, but it's never going to be 100%. Non-citizens and foreign entities are going to be subject to certain taxes within the US as well. At a simple level, there's no way avoid sales taxes. People have to pay sales tax in states they can't vote in either

[–] irotsoma 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Sales tax is different. That pays for the infrastructure to get the goods to market, theoretically. Though admittedly that is not exactly true everywhere, the general idea of sales tax is for economic reasons, not residential.

And of course it's not going to be 100%, but we're talking about large portions of the population that were purposely excluded, e.g. women, slaves, etc., in the past, and currently lots of people of all genders and races who live in Puerto Rico, Guam, D.C, etc..

PR alone accounts for over 3 million adults, or about 1% of the US population, with little to no representation, most of them citizens. Wyoming only has about 580,000 people, or about 0.17% of the population, but controls 2% of the Senate, 0.23% of the house, and 0.56% of the presidential election.

[–] raef 1 points 1 week ago

We're also not talking about taxes just for residency. The federal government doesn't collect property taxes. I'm just trying to say there is some effort to not burden them unduly with taxes. Do I think they should become a state: yes; barring that do I think they should they be excluded from entitlements: no. The issue of statehood is complicated. Historically referendums in Puerto Rico have failed. At least some are happy with the status quo

[–] Buddahriffic 3 points 1 week ago

Same thing that happened to the WMD in Iraq. And the "good of the people" in Guatemala.

[–] Speculater 45 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Combine the Carolinas and Dakotas, add DC and Puerto Rico. No flag change.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Got it, so North Carokota, South Dakolina, and DC and Puerto Rico. I think it’s a great idea.

[–] ComicalMayhem 23 points 1 week ago (1 children)

ok but why does carakota go kinda hard

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago

I have no problem with Dakolina either

[–] LovableSidekick 34 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I was gonna say it's ridiculous to make DC a state, it's just a city!

Turns out more people live in DC than Wyoming or Vermont LOL. So I'm down!

Also I've heard that monkey's brains, although popular in Cantonese cuisine, are not often found there.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Turns out communism was just a red herring!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

A few people were clued into that reference, I see...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But it doesn't have an airport. Or a car dealership. There's a car dealership a few blocks from the Capitol building, but it doesn't have one.

(This was an actual argument from the GOP on the floor of Congress.)

[–] LovableSidekick 2 points 1 week ago

"The Constitution doesn't say a state has to have an airport or a car dealership."

"WeLL It ShOuLd! We DoN't WaNt sHiThOlE sTaTeS!!1!!"

[–] KmlSlmk64 1 points 1 week ago (2 children)

IIRC if DC became a state, only specific federal buildings, such as the white house, scotus & the capitol buildings would remain as a territory (due to the constitution), but, because of a amendment to the us constitution giving DC the same amount of voters _(members of the electoral college)_for the president as the lowest-representation (essentially always 3), which only citizens living inside the area would be allowed to vote for, only the citizens of white house would be able to vote for 3 whole electors.

I might be incirrect, as I am not a US citizen, but I've seen this mentioned somewhere long ago

[–] LovableSidekick 2 points 1 week ago

If DC were converted to a state, presumably this would be changed so there would be no district. The federal buildings would just be buildings in that state.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm not sure if that's right or not, but there's been some loopholes around DC's status before. For example, all members of Congress are considered city alders for DC. In practice, they delegate that to local elected officials and everything works like a normal US city.

Same trick here. Delegate those EC votes to follow the popular vote of the city.

[–] citrusface 21 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Look man. I know NC is far from perfect, but don't lump me in with SC okay.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago

If we combined Montana, Nebraska, Wyoming, and both Dakotas into one mega state, they'd have about the population of South Carolina.

But somehow they get 17 electoral votes to SCs 9 and 10 senators to California's 2.

So I vote for Monomskakota!

[–] horse_battery_staple 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

But think about all the food down there in SC, y'all can claim it. Maybe they'll take some of the empathy and intersectional community minded mutual aid networks y'all got and we can all be a little fatter and happier.

Plus, we all get more papusas and salpicon!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

As a GA resident right across the river from SC, I understand that sentiment. SC sucks. Those bastards stole our city name and our fuckin baseball team.

[–] AngryCommieKender 9 points 1 week ago

Add DC, Puerto Rico, and Guam, and we have 53 states. 53 is a prime number, and therefore we would be indivisible.

[–] Neon 9 points 1 week ago (3 children)

But first you should probably fix those islanders that aren't even citizens.

Iirc making people citizenshipless is even against international law?

[–] FlowVoid 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Which islanders are you referring to?

People born in Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa all have American citizenship (just like Puerto Ricans).

[–] Neon 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)
[–] FlowVoid 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Ok, technically they are US nationals but not US citizens. They still have US passports, but their passports are slightly different.

International law defines a "stateless" person as neither a national nor a citizen of any country. So the UN Conventions on Statelessness do not apply to American Samoans. Likewise the UN Charter and the Universal Declaration on Human Rights provide guarantees of "nationality", not citizenship.

[–] Neon 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

not illegal then, you're right.

But it's still an absolute shamelessnes that they aren't even citizens of the country their homeland, their native land belongs to.

they're not even citizens of a protectorate.

[–] FlowVoid 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

People born in American Samoa generally consider themselves citizens of American Samoa. Even though they have US passports, they can vote for their own government and write their own laws. Including laws that might be overturned by American courts if American Samoans were fully US citizens.

For example, there are restrictions on buying land in American Samoa if you are not a "blood" descendant of American Samoans.

It is prohibited to alienate any lands except freehold lands to any person who has less than one-half native blood...

If a person who has any nonnative blood marries another person who has any nonnative blood, the children of such marriage cannot inherit land unless they are of at least one-half native blood.

In other words, Mark Zuckerburg cannot swoop into American Samoa and buy half of an island.

That's why it's not so surprising that the government of American Samoans, as well as a majority of its citizens, is opposed to becoming US citizens. They have seen what happened to native Hawaiians, and they don't want the same.

[–] diffusive 3 points 1 week ago

Sadly it’s not like that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

Canada, for example, withdraw the citizenship to children of Canadians that haven’t lived at least 1 year in Canada before 18yo

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Yeah, people can't have no citizenship.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago

Puerto Rico periodically votes on whether or not to pursue becoming a state, becoming a state doesn't win except in one vote that was specifically a non-binding vote on the topic and that had much lower turnout than other votes on the idea.

DC was literally created specifically to not be a state, so that no state held the seat of the federal government.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Why does DC need to be separate anyway? Does any other country do it like that?

Edit: yes, a few, but not really any I would look to as role models: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_district

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It doesn't, and the reasons for being that way are long in the past. The originally US wanted to avoid any state having the capitol at a time when states were more independent entities than they are now. People weren't really meant to live there at all. Politicians and there staff would travel in from the surrounding areas. Of course, it's evolved way past that, and the citizens of DC deserve the full representation of statehood.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Edit: my information was out of date

Tell the Puerto Ricans that, we're waiting on them reaching 51% in favor.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They reached a majority vote in favor of statehood in the 2020 referendum. We're waiting on Congress. There's supposed to be another vote in this general election.

Make them a state, or give them independence. The will of the people of Puerto Rico should decide, but the current status is untenable.

[–] pyre 3 points 1 week ago (2 children)

they should be a state. if they become independent the US will fuck them over forever.

[–] Kaput 3 points 1 week ago

Maybe Canada could take it? I'd vote for that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Well, they'd be thrown in with the rest of islands of the Caribbean on that one. That's something that should change regardless.

[–] pyre 1 points 1 week ago

yeah but it won't. if they become a state they get a voice. if they become independent they will get devastated by the US just like Haiti. and a lot of other countries.