this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
111 points (95.1% liked)

No Stupid Questions

36168 readers
1358 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] themeatbridge 70 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Lots of good answers here, but one I haven't seen is that some people have different value systems. They would be the ones that say "yes, human rights would be nice, but at what cost?"

Typically, as everyone here has pointed out, they value their own well being and comfort. "We can't end child slave labor because then a KitKat would cost $20." They might cite economic priorities, national or personal security, religious beliefs, or civic pride (see: China).

[–] dustyData 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It always boils down to the same core belief: “It's OK for some humans to suffer and die in indignity.” The cruelty is the point. Yes, it's a different value system, but usually it's about putting something other than humanity above everything else. Be it money, religion or ideology, it's always about the idea that some material or conceptual object is more valuable than human life and dignity. The other face of that coin is dehumanization, which is the idea that, “yes all humans deserve basic rights, but did you see what they did? They obviously are animals who don't deserve rights.”

[–] hushable 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Another common argument I've heard is regarding crime and criminals. Some politicians in my country tout that you cannot arrest criminals and we spend a fortune maintaining jails as if they were 5 star hotels. This is of course not true, but it does rail up the tough on crime crew who believe the only reason crime is rampant it is because it somehow allowed by human rights.

Since human rights are international agreements, it makes for an easy scape goat for those who believe in crazy conspiracy theories

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] AA5B 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Misunderstanding. For example it’s embarrassing how long I opposed feminism because I only read extreme scare stories about it, never realizing how much of what I took for granted in relationships between genders was a hard fought victory for feminism and all of us. Then when we had our first child, who were the only people standing up to say my company should have paternity leave? Feminists.

I have a more conservative brother who is very much against affirmative action. However he sees firsthand the results of blindly promoting people to meet diversity goals without regard to ability. Meanwhile I’ve been at companies who pay attention to both, resulting in a much more successful workplace

Or are we going political? Clearly the Palestinian situation is a crime against humanity, but do I oppose human rights by saying that is much more complex and it’s not as simple as Israel just stopping?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or are we going political?

Not a political issue.

do I oppose human rights by saying that is much more complex and it’s not as simple as Israel just stopping?

Yes. This is a cowardly way of siding with the oppressor and (contrary to the question of this post) indirectly saying one is against not only human rights but also international law, in favor of one's feelings, or to avoid the inconvenience of acknowledging a wrongdoing and not being moved to rectify it. In the least. Not even with words on an online forum.

There is no neutrality when it comes to human rights, you either support them or you are fine with some people not having them, in which case they are not a right.

Is it complicated for Russia to pull out of Ukraine and respect international law? Is it complicated because they have a historical right to that land? Is it complicated because Russia has the right to self defense against NATO encroachment? Do you condemn NATO? You and I personally, dear commenter, are not enemies by any definition of the word, but if the narrative has one excusing war crimes because "it's complicated" then the narrative is our enemy. Should Hamas face an international court? Absolutely. Should Israel face an international court? Absolutely. Should all violence stop right this second? Absolutely. Our actions (or lack thereof) decide whether we live in a world of law or a world of brutal autocracy.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] illiterate_coder 23 points 1 year ago

I doubt anyone you are talking to is opposed to all human rights, that sounds very much like a straw man statement. Reasonable people can disagree about whether any particular right should be protected by law.

The reason is simple: any legally-protected right you have stands in direct opposition to some other right that I could have:

  • Your right to free speech is necessarily limited by my right to, among other things, freedom from slander/libel, right to a fair trial, right to free and fair elections, right to not be defrauded, etc.
  • Your right to bodily autonomy can conflict with my right to health and safety when there is a global pandemic spreading and you refuse vaccination.
  • Your property rights are curtailed by rules against environmental harm, discrimination, insider trading, etc.

No right is ever meant to be or can be absolute, and not all good government policy is based on rights. Turning a policy argument into one about human rights is not generally going to win the other person over, it's akin to calling someone a racist because of their position on affirmative action. There's no rational discussion that can be had after that point.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

religion goes a long way to dehumanizing others, even in the same household

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Normally, to be honest, it's because they want to hurt someone. Look at the Conservatives in the UK, who are desperate to repeal human rights legislation so that they can send refugees to Rwanda without right of appeal.

Note that those Conservatives still think that they have human rights. Their excuse for depriving refugees of human rights is that some of them have entered the country illegally. Yet, none of them thinks any Conservative MP should be detained arbitrarily or deported, even though they now acknowledge that they, their government and their party have broken the law in various ways. No, they want to strip rights from other people. Their argument doesn't wash.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect" - Frank Wilhoit

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I feel like whenever a law like this is written, a coin should be flipped, and all of the people who voted to pass the law have that law applied to them based on the outcome of that coin flip. And that should be fine right? It's a fair and equitable law, respecting human rights.

It's like the classic traffic engineering joke, how do you get the speed limit increased? You rigorously enforce the speed limit where the The legislators live and drive

When two children are arguing about sharing something, the diplomatic adult has one of the children divide the thing into two piles, and the other child gets to choose which pile they want. We need to get more of that do unto others as you would have done unto yourself into politics

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Right, it's like when people try to justify colonialism. Would they be okay with their country being conquered and turned into a colony? No? Okay, so we've established colonialism is wrong. Everything after that is increasingly ludicrous special pleading. 'Oh, but country X was more economically developed, so it was okay,' is only a consistent argument if you actually go on to say '... and that's why it would be a good thing if South Korea conquered Italy.'

[–] joel_feila 3 points 1 year ago

This remibds of a police raid during the trump years in Kentucky. "They are hurting the wrong peole" said one woman as a mexican man was departed leaving his wife and kids behind.

Very mask off moment. Just admitting the role of law is harming some people.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

There have always been such (it is human nature) - but right now they feel bold enough to speak and act, whereas previously they had been too afraid and embarrassed to do so publicly.

In South Carolina, various KKK-like groups said in advance that they wanted to kill people, wrapped barbed wire around baseball bats (in order to better kill people with), showed up to kill people, then actually killed people, then bragged about having killed people... Oh right, but the other side was not successful in securing a permit for their peaceful protest, so you know, there are "many sides" to every issue I guess.

Misinformation/brainwashing techniques are powerful. Like if you believed that a particular type of human was the root of all evil in this world, then you SHOULD want them dead, under those circumstances... right? You do not bc you know better, not just about that one group but more fundamentally that it is ideas that bring about evil, not people. But the people killing people do not know that, and it is to the advantage of others who seek power, and want to use the army of sheeple to advance their own agenda, for those sheeple to not know that either.

[–] vsg 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Some people live in dangerous places and believe that treating criminals like human beings is the same as ignoring their crimes. These people believe that human rights should only be for those who deserve it by not harming the "good citizen".

[–] TheInsane42 11 points 1 year ago

I guess because they think they are superior and forget that human rights include their own rights.

So yea, the "because they're stupid" answer sums it up nicely.

[–] joel_feila 11 points 1 year ago

Part of it is disagreement over what should be a right. I have genuinely met people that belive rights like protest, movment, voting, legal rep, should not given they must be earned. So they are pro rights just a very limited list.

Example say "health care is a right" in the usa.

[–] mydude 10 points 1 year ago

The ownerclass benefits from people not having protections. I don't think you can put it any simpler than this. Slaves, child labour, debt cycles, prison labour, forced sex labour, all examples of none-existant or low protections.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I had this experience a short while back, and it really shook me. Granted, this was on the Internet, where people are more willing to say wild things or generally go mask-off, but I was downright flabbergasted. I'll try to summarize the various arguments without inserting my own bias:

  • because they view human rights as a social or legal concept, and not inherently more important than other social or legal principles

  • because we as humans haven't historically respected them, and don't respect them universally even now, so demanding respect for human rights is a form of privilege

  • because the idea of human rights requires a belief that humans have special dignity above that of other creatures (this one I found especially irksome, because I found the arguments denigrating to animal rights)

  • because various groups advocating for human rights don't agree on what those rights are, so blanket support for human rights is not something they can do

I'll try to find the reddit post where this took place if I can. It was... it was something. If I've misrepresented any of the arguments above, it was not intentional but only because I find them so alien that I cannot understand them properly.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because some people lack the empathetic skills to put themselves in a disadvantaged position. They can't conceive of a world where they don't have their current privileges.

When you have all the privilege, equal rights feels like a downgrade.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some people even think they're the ones in a disadvantaged position, even if they're not, but they'll always feel entitled to getting something when others get something.

I don't quite understand this selfish entitlement, but I see it happen in many situations. It also applies to human rights for people on the other side of the globe, because from their perspective there is only one world, theirs.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Theres a lot of different ideas of what human rights should be. Abortion is the easiest example. Its a human right to abort, which to some is murder. In that case, it would make sense to be against to be against human rights, if you believe that right is to murder.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Or from the other perspective, pro life people see Abortion as violating the right to life.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] REdOG 8 points 1 year ago

Some people define things differently than reality has ascribed, what are rights, while others are just cruel.

Ever wonder why ghosts keep up with modern language trends?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

Because they have been lied to about what it means.

[–] ichbinjasokreativ 8 points 1 year ago

Slavery (as an abstract, not necessarily racially motivated) has A LOT of benefits for the owning class.

I'm also vehemently opposed to any and all of it's forms, just fyi.

[–] Rhynoplaz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Either to troll, or misrepresenting the phrase for a "gotcha" moment, such as... "I believe in ORGANISM rights, not just humans deserve them!"

Or possibly a truly shitty person. That's always an option.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In addition to the reasons suggested in several of the comments here so far, the philosopher Giorgio Agamben is extremely critical of the concept of human rights since they are a legal and political construct, and the same legal and political systems are used to create 'exceptional' circumstances in which the rights are deemed not to apply to certain groups. Relying on these rights is flawed, in his view, since they will be suspended when most needed. The Philosopize This Podcast did an episode on this just recently.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] MightEnlightenYou 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There are many variations of human rights declarations. I oppose this one the most: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

There are also specific articles in the universal declaration of human rights that I think are wrong

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

There are also specific articles in the universal declaration of human rights that I think are wrong

Do you mind saying which ones?

[–] MightEnlightenYou 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Article 16.3

The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

I disagree that the family is the fundamental group unit of society.

Article 25.2

Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

I feel discriminated that motherhood and not fatherhood are entitled to special care.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

They're a piece of shit human.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In what context did this happen?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] imhotep1 4 points 1 year ago

I am a "privileged whitevl guy" who married into a central American refugee family, and I can say there are a lot of people in developing countries that love human rights, but hate when they are applied to specific groups. Because if everyone has nothing, trying to help marginalized groups seems unfair to the majority who is also oppressed.

So if you want to fight femicide, or anti-LGBT discrimination, people not in that group often get angry because they want help too.

I obviously don't agree, but I understand the viewpoint given their life experiences. What I don't understand is when I meet Americans/1st world people who express the same sentiments. They need to go fuck themselves in the ass with a rusty spork and die of sepsis.

Only evil people and the ignorant are opposed to human rights.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Context?

Maybe they're crazy. Maybe someone said "guy who openly opposes human rights says what?". Maybe they're evil. Maybe someone paid them. Maybe they have a rare form of speech impediment or verbal tic. Maybe they speak a language in which that's just "hello" or something. How is anybody supposed to know without any information?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Maybe your understanding of human rights is different than theirs. Maybe

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Because he/she is a psychopath?

[–] MushuChupacabra 2 points 1 year ago

It's a requirement for Republicans, apparently.

load more comments
view more: next ›