As someone who has gone to the hospital for an overdose on caffeine, I really want to try one of these. Because, I clearly haven't learned my lesson at all.
this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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Fucking lol
Right? I've never gone for an overdose, but I have had jangly eyeballs once or twice.
Sounds delicious.
"jangly eyeballs" is the perfect descriptor thanks
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If you've ever had a large coffee, it's like that. If you've ever had 3 large coffees and a heart condition, the same principle applies.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who keeps seeing these stories and immediately wanting to go try it.
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Panera should go ahead and put prominent warning labels on it. Call it The lemonade so charged it killed [name of latest victim]. It might double sales of the product.
Or like those worker safety counters: XX Days Since Last Lost-Life Lemonade Accident
Big Four Loko energy here.
How much you want to bet that Heart Attack Grill is going to run with that idea.
Panera's MURDER lemonade. So good it'll kill you!! Buy one, get one on Mondays!
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Why is a bread and soup restaurant selling energy drinks so caffeinated it will kill you if you drink it?
The same reason a sandwich restaurant uses only bread that is legally classified as cake
It's not so caffeinated, it's about as much caffeine per ounce as coffee
Yeah, but nobody's drinking 3 30 oz coffees in one sitting. Nor is coffee really marketed as a health drink.
A 30-ounce, large-size Panera Charged Lemonade has about 390 milligrams of caffeine, about four times the amount found in a cup of coffee.
If any sugar soaked beverage is allowed to be marketed as a health drink, that's a problem that applies to the entire industry.
And drinking 90oz is the fault of the consumer, remember how much blowback there was when New York banned selling drinks above a certain volume? The people want to be able to do drink ungodly amounts of soft drink, apparently.
Only thing I really blame Panera for is not clearly labeling how much caffeine is in a cup, which I also don't really blame them for because the last time I went to Starbucks or McDonald's I couldn't find out which latte had the most caffeine, so that's standard behavior I guess.
Push for more required disclosure if you'd like, I'd probably agree, but Panera was not out of line IMO.
If it is an industry problem, then this sort of event is usually what snowballs into actual change.
The tip of this case, I believe, isn't just the caffeine content, but the fact that it:
- Wasn't exactly labeled as a high-caf drink.
- Was often next to, or in place of, non-caf drinks.
- Was marketed as part of an unlimited drinks program.
While the company isn't required to cater to individuals with very specific tolerances of the simulant, they likely had data available to them that suggests that this outcome was always a possibility, yet they supposedly ran the product until people died.
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It's not a dangerous drink for the majority of the population. Dude had known medical issues that caffeine can cause issues with, and drank an unreasonable amount of it.
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I don't want to sound like a dick, but I don't really think Panera is at fault here. Their lemonade is no more caffeinated than standard Starbucks venti drinks.
Dennis Brown, of Fleming Island, Florida, drank three Charged Lemonades from a local Panera on Oct. 9 and then suffered a fatal cardiac arrest on his way home, the suit says.
390mg of caffeine is a lot. But it's also commonly found in large cups of coffee. And this individual had three of them. I think Florida might want to consider ensuring mentally impaired people like Dennis Brown are better equipped to navigate a world which has leaned heavily into caffeine as a stimulant. I don't believe that Panera is some bastion of justice and good will. I'm sure their lemonade makes every attempt to "hook" members on their product with high levels of caffeine and hiding it under sugar. However, I think this lawsuit might just mean that caffeine levels should be treated like calories: we should mandate that an estimate is listed next to the beverage so those with heart problems or the health conscientious can make more informed decisions.
400mg of caffeine is the daily maximum dose recommended by several health organizations. And that's for healthy adults. Keep in mind that one charged lemonade had more caffeine than a full can of Red Bull, and a full can of Monster combined. It also contained a lot of taurine which increases the effect of caffeine.
The charged lemonade does not taste caffeinated, and there were basically no warnings about it in store. The marketing and in store branding made it seem like a sort of Gatorade, i.e. an electrolyte drink.
It was also sold next to the fruit juices and such. Which would imply less caffeine.
It was also part of the unlimited sips program, providing free refills. Drinking two or three would cause a healthy adult to start having heart palpitations, and those who are at risk would go into cardiac arrest after one (which is what happened with the first death)
Since the first death, Panera has reduced the amount of caffeine in the lemonade, and many stores have started putting it behind the counter rather than out in the open. They've also added warnings about the caffeine content of the drinks, but still don't warn about the compounding effects of taurine.
These lawsuits are likely going to be settled out of court, because Panera did fuck up here, and they also don't want the bad press of multiple deaths linked to their overly caffeinated drink.
A few corrections:
400mg of caffeine is not considered a daily recommended maximum, but "an amount not generally associated with dangerous, negative effects" (FDA). Most people can consume more than that and have no significant side effects.
The Charged Lemonade has more caffeine than most any other drinks... When you fill up a 30 oz container with it and don't add any ice. If you filled up the same container with an energy drink or coffee, it would have similar amounts of caffeine.
Aside from the possibility to associate "charged" with electrolytes, none of the marketing or branding of the drink implies that it's an electrolyte drink. Personally I would much sooner think that charged means energy, i.e. caffeine and the like, but that's just me.
A healthy adult consuming multiple of these beverages wouldn't likely experience any heart issues, but likely would have things like jitteriness and have a hard time falling asleep. And while people with heart conditions should definitely stay away from these drinks, "would go into cardiac arrest after one" is incredibly overblown. If that were the case, the deaths would be in the hundreds or thousands, not one or two.
Panera has only "reduced" the caffeine amounts in the drink by adding ice into the cup because they are now behind the counter, not by changing the formula of the drink.
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https://youtu.be/N4wW85WZMJQ this video is probably not the best source, but it outlines the fundamental issue, which is mostly that people don't expect lemonade to be caffeinated and the labeling for it, although present, doesn't highlight it at all.
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Because he had high blood pressure, he did not consume energy drinks, it adds.
It explains it right there. He drank them without realizing what he was consuming because apparently it isn't obvious that it's an energy drink.
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They failed to properly set expectations. It was self-serve and publicly available, right next to other juices and teas. The expectation of customers, right or wrong, is that those sorts of products and placements mean that you can consume them at a fairly high rate.
They know their customer base, and know that their customer base regularly refills their drinks at the self-service station. They then created a drink that is unsafe to refill, as it would cause you to breach the maximum daily recommended dose.
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Dennis Brown, of Fleming Island, Florida, drank three Charged Lemonades...
Brown, 46, had an unspecified chromosomal deficiency disorder, a developmental delay and a mild intellectual disability.
Because he had high blood pressure, he did not consume energy drinks, it adds.
Can someone explain why this is Panera Bread's fault?
Because the drink was not clearly marked as being dangerous, a good article on this: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/panera-adds-warning-caffeinated-lemonade-stores-lawsuit-customers-deat-rcna122628
If you want the tldr: the "lemonade" was located next to regular drinks and "Photos ... show it was advertised as “plant-based and clean,” containing as much caffeine as the restaurant’s dark roast coffee.".
Apparently Panera's defence is that each customer should look up and read the detailed ingredient list and have enough specialized nutritional knowledge to know which dosages constitute a danger to their life.
Apparently Panera's defence is that each customer should look up and read the detailed ingredient list and have enough specialized nutritional knowledge to know which dosages constitute a danger to their life.
AKA the position of every libertarian ever. No big deal, just some collateral damage while the "free market" "corrects itself."
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To play devil's advocate (because I really don't care for Panera Bread or energy drinks), but...
“Because the drink was not clearly marked as being dangerous...”
It's actually NOT dangerous for healthy individuals. In the first death, the woman had a heart condition and knew it had caffeine in it, but obviously not her or Panera would know what her safe limit (if any) would be. Yet, she consumed it anyway.
In this more recent death, the man had multiple health risks, including high blood pressure, an “intellectual disability”, “blurry vision” and “ADHD” (not sure if he was also on medication for any of those).
Assuming it was self-serve, as most Panera Bread's are (I believe), he would have seen this:
Now, he many not have understood what any of that means, but he also purchased this drink “at least seven times over the course of two weeks” according to the lawsuit.
Having high blood pressure means that even the sugar would create problems for him.
He ended up drinking “3 servings”, which could be up to 2.5L (!!!) worth, which killed him. That's not a normal amount of any beverage, for any individual, in one sitting. Let alone a high sugar, high caffeine drink for someone with high blood pressure who may have also been on medication.
I guess my question would be: what else should restaurants do?
Someone with a health condition could be at risk when they overconsume on most foods that are high in one thing or another (fat, salt, sugar, caffeine, etc.)
Hell, drinking enough water in a short amount of time could kill you, so where does a restaurant's responsibility end and the individual's responsibility begin?
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390mg of caffeine on the lemonade. Who ever expects lemonade to have caffeine let alone 390mg? It's fucking insane. A can of coke has 35mg and thats enough to give me anxiety, sweats and tension. If I drank that thinking it was lemonade I would be fucked at another level.
If I drank that thinking it was lemonade I would be fucked at another level.
To be fair that is frankly a ludicrous reaction for a healthy adult to have to 35mg of caffeine.
Thats not the point though, 390 mg is a lot even for a healthy adult.
On top of that, it wasn't labeled well at all. It sounds like they did not stat the caffeine content on the dispenser, but even if it did, not everybody has a good reference of how fucking much 390mg is.
It pretty much just looks like any other mundane nutrition facts. it doesn't call your attention to the amount at all or give any indication that 390mg might be high. I assumed it would be on the level of tea until I couldn't sleep at all the night after I had one (and I had it at like 2pm too, not even in the evening), and I still didn't make the connection until I later saw it in the news. I don't recall any other brand marketing using the term "charged" to indicate caffeine so I don't get people saying that everyone should understand that "charged" means caffeinated. "Spiked" and alcohol content sure, that's obvious, but "charged" is so vague.
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Because they sell what looks and tastes like normal lemonade, without any safeguards to make sure you don't accidentally drink four times the daily recommended limit in one sitting. The signs display the caffeine content in small text next to the calories, which you and I both know that nobody who doesn't count their calories reads. It's called "charged" lemonade, in small yellow text on the green sign. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the lemonade in that lemonade dispenser is normal lemonade.
But why hold them accountable? Starbucks wouldn't be in trouble if you drank 90 oz of coffee!
Coffee obviously has caffeine, it's the kind of inseparable from the concept of it. Same goes to a lesser extent with many sodas–anyone who has to watch their caffeine likely knows that coke and doctor pepper have caffeine. But lemonade? Who sells caffeinated lemonade? I guess G-Fuel does, but someone with a heart condition probably knows not to order G-Fuel.
Lemonade is the safe choice when you don't want caffeine, because to my knowledge nobody (besides Panera bread) has ever sold caffeinated lemonade out of self-service dispensers.
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They never disclosed how much caffeine/sugar was in the drink till after the first death. Too much caffeine can kill you.
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I need to get more of that fucking lemonade.
I have tachycardia and I'm supposed to avoid caffeine. But I could easily not read the fine print and drink this. Who expects caffeine in their lemonade?
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Was just there, they recently moved them behind the counter, this time they were completely gone.
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