this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 83 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This isn't just a liberal issue, it's a political climate issue that everyone plays a part in. Liberal 'smugness' is a reaction to conservative anti-intellectualism. When their feelings are as good as your facts, there is nothing left to debate.

No matter how simple liberals try to explain things, it doesnt matter. Conservativism has stopped having substance worth debating over when it is no longer about policy, but all about taking the opposite side of every liberal stance.

Liberals are not at fault for the willful ignorance of rural voters. No one starts off being smug and condescending to people. This happens after they've tried to explain with civility a thousand times and nothing worked. When ego and pride, not empathy and understanding, are the only things of value to conservatives, liberals resort to contempt. There is nothing left but to resent these people for being pigheaded and small minded. Their world views are set in stone by fox news, and any attempt you make at showing them the truth is deemed as a personal attack.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I’ve managed to radicalize multiple of my blue collar, truck loving, baby Jesus spouting, coworkers. It’s a process, but so was my on radicalization, just a different one due to our different material conditions.

Obviously, you can’t change everyone’s minds, but in my experience, there’s not much mind changing that has to be done in a lot of cases, just education on the root causes of the things they already know and notice.

When one party is telling you that this is the best time in our history, while your wages have gone down for 30 years straight, and the other party is the only one addressing their issues, but is doing so through inflammatory rhetoric and outright lies, it’s easy to see why someone would lean towards one over the other, and why they’d come to believe one sides lies over the other side. The trick is that most rural atomized people recognize most of the same problems in our society, the same way the rest of us do, they’ve just had people telling them lies about why those things are happening.

If you want a mass movement, you have to meet the people where they are. If you want to feel superior, then dunking on rednecks is the way to go. That doesn’t mean accepting bigotry, but recognizing that everyone is at a different stage in their political development, and that it takes a custom catered approach towards each individual in order to best effect said development.

A big problem i see liberals having when trying to change the minds of both leftists and conservatives, is an inability to even consider any aspect of another’s perspective, and a belief in one’s own perceptions as objective reality. In doing so, they will argue against their perception of others beliefs, rather than actually discussing and finding what those beliefs are, or where those beliefs come from.

It’s almost like no one remembers that redneck meant socialist union organizer before it was corrupted to truck loving suburban hillbilly wannabe. The working class is ripe for radicalization, but you have to treat them like full people first, not caricatures.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you figured out how to turn them (bluepill?) why not write down the blueprint somewhere and share it.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Because it’s not a blueprint, it’s a process that is catered to each individual and their circumstances. There’s no shortcuts.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

I grew up around and still live with these people. Let me tell ya how they think: They don’t. They don’t even really know what a liberal is.

To them a liberal is something other than them. And the ingroup they’ve spent their whole lives trying to fit into says that’s bad, so they are against liberals and everything they do and say and want. But so is everyone they know, so they’ll oppose liberals even louder and more extreme, in a bid to get noticed by their peers at work, church, family, and party.

And of course they’re right, liberals are shit. But they don’t know why, because again they Do. Not. Know. What. A. Liberal. Is.

And if they ever figure it out and outgrow the childish mentality of opposing without understanding, they will be outcast from their friends, family, and community. And that is the fear that keeps them lockstep in line, voting for the apocalypse.

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[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's the type of overblown rhetoric and ignorant takes that we've come to expect from uneducated, inbred, welfare-taking red states.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m an anarcho-communist in one of the most secure blue states there is, but thanks for proving my point I made in another comment that liberals argue against their perceptions of peoples beliefs rather than their actual beliefs.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Haha, I guess I really should have added the slash s. Did not think it was needed, but here we go. Good job with the self-own I guess.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Man look at the rest of these comments, I’m sorry but it’s been nearly constant attacks on the working class since I posted this meme, I may have gotten a bit defensive. Cheers!

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I spent longer than I care to admit trying to figure out if it was sarcastic or not before just deciding not to think about it any longer lmao

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

ITT class is created primarily by cultural signifiers and not material conditions, pay no attention to the $100k trucks and the houses the rural elite own outright, it’s liberal renters in the city that are oppressing the yokels! I will be very condescending to make this point about Elite New York Liberal condescension

Nevermind that your cities are destroyed and paved over for the convenience of this exact group of rural people, nevermind that your neighborhoods are destroyed for their comfort, nevermind that you are derided as undeserving poor, that your services are defunded to appease these people, that they trash your homes as shitholes, that they advocate sending in the army when you protest these conditions, that they themselves march through your cities with guns to intimidate you, that they cheer the corporate takeover of your homes and advocate for lower taxes to reward the corporations that do so.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south who are not the same people driving $100k trucks, or if they are they're deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily.

I know the meme is that rural southerners all drive massive new trucks, but the majority of the rural south is extremely economically depressed and is 100% not going to respond well to liberal policies that do in fact come from urban areas with completely different material conditions. Even if the majority of people in both rural and urban/suburban settings do share a status of oppression from the capitalist class, their relationship to this oppression and the actual solutions to it often don't look the same - something that the democratic party will never compensate for.

On the bright side many of these rural southerners see themselves as libertarians to a large degree. Even if their ideas of liberty have been poisoned by the modern right wing, I've found they will often respond well to (historically conscious) libertarian socialist ideas when presented individually and outside of their predisposed ideas of left-right politics.

Not to mention that in many southern states voter turnout is extremely low, and the reality is that even though our politicians are mostly garbage right wingers - the people here are simply being trapped by their economic situation and the policies enacted by the few only further entrench their inability to escape poverty.

At the end of the day the working class rural south is primarily suffering from a lack of class conscious education and economic policies brought on by their ignorance.

Of course there's also a history of racism here that has historically been exploited by the right wing to further entrench itself, but again the further down the economic totem pole you go the more you find that white and black folks in the rural south suffer from this in much the same way, and they often know it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is very clearly talking about the working class rural south

It is very clearly not, neither in the OP nor the comments has anyone made this distinction, nor have they made the distinction in the other direction, that the capitalist oppressors of the urban liberal are not the same as the urban liberal themselves. There is no one in the thread connecting the status of the urban liberal to the rural poor conservative: i.e. that both are oppressed as a result of their lack of class consciousness

they’re deeply in debt to keep up what they see as necessary appearances - which is again a result of capitalist advertising and only works to keep these people poorer in the long run even if they have a nice expensive new toy temporarily

Then ppl itt should be comparing the trucks to student loans, but they’re not, they’re defending the trucks and the people they’re defending demand usury of the urban liberal

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can respond to your points if you'll ensure to me that you're arguing in good faith. I'm not inclined however to debate with someone who uses straw men and whataboutisms.

I will say that I agree with you in that both rural and urban folks suffer from a lack of class consciousness that prevents any meaningful change.

I would however point out that from my perspective the entire point of the meme and this thread is to connect the struggle of the rural and urban poor.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

I’m not inclined however to debate with someone who uses straw men and whataboutisms

I don’t really care, I wasn’t debating and this entire thread has not inspired any confidence in me about good faith or solidarity. If you want to read my comments and take away your own conclusions about it you’re welcome to but I didn’t come here to change your mind, just as op didn’t come here to change mine.

I’ll point out that the person working the blue collar job with $100k in debt is poor, whether the asset they’re in debt over is a vehicle or an education.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

ok an european here, country people suck ass. Homophobes and bootlickers, while also blaming minorities for their problem. They hear "left", they say "totalitarianism"

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Country people led our (US) labor movement in the 1890s-1930s in conjunction with immigrant industrial workers in the big cities and longshoremen and others on the coasts. While there has definitely been a turning away from the left for the working classes in many places, the mere existence of historical working class socialist movements show that it is not an inevitable outcome, and with the proper analysis and action, can be reversed.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Plenty of educated people and academic leftys live in the country, they just lay a bit low to avoid problems with the types of people you're describing. And I hate to break it to you, but talking like that will only make things worse for you. Nobody wants to move away from their city conveniences, especially when they think the country is like a scene from The Hills Have Eyes thanks to people who don't know what they're talking about spreading negativity like you just did.

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[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

Rural people: Take us seriously!

Also rural people: Explain it to us like we are five!

[–] TheAlbacor 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Successful social movements requires messaging that can reach the lowest common denominator.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Examples:

LOCK HER UP

BUILD THAT WALL

STOP THE STEAL

You need to break everything down to Three Syllables so it can be rhythmically chanted easily.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

There's nothing wrong with explaining a concept simply, it anything being able to explain it simply shows true understanding.

The problem I see is a lot of rural folk don't want you to explain it simply, they're too prejudiced and dead set in they're ways.

They may ask you to explain it simply but they do so to see you stumble so they can mock you.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends 9 points 1 year ago

Rural people: We don't want govt to mess with us!

Also rural people: please help us during natural disasters, give us tax breaks, and bring us basic necessities like hospitals!

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[–] Sheeple 20 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is too americrule for me to understand

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[–] liztliss 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It sounds like you've been the victim of the misinformation campaign designed to make it seem like everyone who isn't you is your enemy and that all people who hold certain beliefs are a certain way, when the reality is far from this

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago
[–] Anti_Weeb_Penguin 13 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People outta be looking up where the term redneck comes from.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

It's a shame that the people who currently wear that name with pride wouldn't be considered rednecks at the origin of the term.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why is lemmy turning into MLs vs liberals? From my perspective their both questionable groups. Furthermore I don't think it's actually helpful or constructive outside of political communities to discuss this kind of thing. Not everyone actually has a side in politics to begin with.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You're perhaps not wrong about the choice of community, especially after the hexbear fiasco. OP isn't an ML though, they're an anarchist.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Not everyone left of centre is a ML. Liberals are not left wing.

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[–] scarabic 8 points 1 year ago

A good point or two in there, but totally drowned out by bitterness and projection. “Hey big city libruls! Don’t reduce people to stereotypes!” I mean facking LOL.

I also like the part about “hey city people! no one else likes you” when 80%, and rising, of Americans live in cities.

[–] complacent_jerboa 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

we should all just go commit fully automated luxury gay space communism

or, failing that, we should at least aim for mostly automated anarcho-communism

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Solidarity across conditions is vital, and this includes understanding the needs of both city people and rural people. Its also important to keep perspective that at this point the majority of of people live in urban settings, and prioritizetion of resources should be mutually equitable

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