Progressive Politics

Isolation or joining hands with fucking SCUUUUUM.

Hmmmm. This is a hard one.

It's 2025. None of these people are poor sad lonely people taken advantage of by a slick conman selling a lie about a bright future. These people know what they've signed up for at this point. Ignorance isn't an excuse anymore.

You're right, we should be like the Democrats who started cozying up to Liz Cheney for conservative Never Trumpers, that strategy worked really well for them. They're only going to drag us further right with them if we ignore their bad intentions for having voted Trump in the first place. They will still see minorities as something to hate, they'll still want to tear down the government to "hurt the right people", and they'll still hate you.

I am not responsible for spending time around violent, hateful people in order to bring them into the fold and change their minds and ultimately their actions. My comment is about talking to people in your life already, who are more likely to actually make changes, I.e. picking your battles, in order to give chances to the folks such as those who are alienated but unsure.

Your argument also make the false assumption that Nazis are irredeemable. I'm sure some of them are. But I'm equally sure that at least some of them aren't.

Thats not an assumption that I make although I could see how you would think I was saying that. In my mind people are people and probably most of them could make changes, but the work required to do so becomes greater over time and it does not fall on marginalized folks, including me, to do that work. But yes I don't associate with Nazis. If you do something different that isn't enabling and validating them and their beliefs and actions I would love to know what it is.

Working class is working class, red or blue.

Yes. And one side votes in favor of the working class while the other does not.

Dem leadership is as pro-corporate as the current admin.

Then why do we see more tax breaks for the wealthy under Republican leadership than Democrat leadership? Why do we see more corporate regulations under Democrat leadership and less under Republican leadership? Your statement is false.

Working class is working class, red or blue.

True but not relevant to what I said. Everyone of us needs to learn from our mistakes, but in order to do that we have to admit we made them.

Dem leadership is as pro-corporate as the current admin.

False, I doubt the Dems would have dismantled the government at the behest of the world's richest man (along with giving him access to all of our tax and social security records) and also not relevant to what I said.

Don't underestimate the effect that propeganda[sic] ran by our very own government has on its citizenry.

Accurate, America is one of the most heavily propagandized populations in history, but not relevant because all they had to do was listen to the words of Trump's actual campaign speeches or read his actual campaign literature to know what he was planning to do. He didn't hide his intentions, people just thought he wasn't serious about them.

I don’t need anyone to admit anything.

It's standard operating procedure in human civilization for someone who was wrong to admit they were wrong before the person or people they wronged can work together with them.

This isn't some huge ask. They were wrong. People got hurt. They need to admit their error before they can be trusted.

I see maga voters getting on board

Do you?

It’s not like our educational institutions do anything to help that, especially in red states.

It doesn't take Einsteinian levels of genius to look around you and go "Hmmm, shit kind of sucks and we've been exclusively electing Republicans in this region my entire life." No, they'd rather blame libs in other parts of the country, or people with darker shades of skin.

All I need is their motivation to work together.

Cool. My motivation is knowing they've changed by admitting they were wrong.

We can work out ideological differences with patience and fortitude, forgiveness and understanding

They want women to be second class citizens and don't want trans people to exist. How do you propose we get past a hurdle like that?

Here's the thing. Would I trust any of them to have my back? Nope. Not a single one. So, yeah, they want to change? Good for them, they are welcome to join the right side of history. I'm not ever going to trust them, though. I won't ever believe that they'll vote for the best interests of the species. They can live out their lives trying to be a better person and doing the right thing. That makes them an average human. If the suffering they cause comes out to a net zero by the end, then they get to have a grave I won't piss on. However, if the only way they can be a good person is to blame someone else for lying to them, instead of assuming any personal responsibility, I don't have much faith they are gonna break even.

For many, the answer is "yes", because it's perfectly easy and incredibly comfortable. Why sacrifice the immediate gratification of what they're doing now with literally anything else.