this post was submitted on 30 Dec 2024
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[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 days ago

Also, "family income" now includes the wife, kids and dog. It used to be that ONE person could earn enough to pay for housing, food, car, Healthcare, etc.

So "family income" is NOT "keeping up with the cost of inflation" despite what the business world wants us to think.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001 13 points 2 days ago

This post is brought to you by:

[–] some_designer_dude 19 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The most disturbing stat is that our contempt for the rich hasn’t really multiplied at all.

[–] bitjunkie 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)
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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart 4 points 1 day ago
[–] UnpopularCrow 177 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

The wealthy are much better off though. If you looked at the wage increase of the top 1%, if has risen by $800,000 a year (https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/12/09/staggering-new-data-shows-income-top-1-has-grown-100-times-faster-bottom-50-1970) since 1970.

So capitalism is working exactly the way it is supposed to. Exploiting the middle and lower classes for the rich. This is exactly the progress they want.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 3 days ago (3 children)

It's a trickle-up economy.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The land of the free and the poor \o/

[–] Strobelt 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Free*

*Terms and conditions apply

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[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (34 children)

There is an economic rule about this

Basically what it says is that new developments - like electricity, cars, computers - cause a temporary increase in demand for labor - and therefore higher wages.

As the technology becomes routine, optimization and automation remove the need for labor - demand for labor decreases and by the rule of the market wages go down.

This development is natural and has nothing to do with who's currently president, policies or anything like that. To quote from the link above:

Stephen Cullenberg stated that the TRPF (Tendency of the rate of profit to fall) "remains one of the most important and highly debated issues of all of economics" because it raises "the fundamental question of whether, as capitalism grows, this very process of growth will undermine its conditions of existence and thereby engender periodic or secular crises."

The only thing that guarantees that the population in the US can continue to live in the long-term is Universal Basic Income - which says that the state should distribute resources among the population even if the people don't work. Basically a form of state-backed social welfare. Without it, the issue will continue to get worse, until people will die on the streets by hunger and cold in masses. UBI is a necessity for the person and for peace.

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[–] [email protected] 112 points 3 days ago (3 children)

But somehow people are mad at queer folks and foreigners instead of the C-suite and their boards.

[–] Anticorp 34 points 3 days ago

Somehow? If it's not obvious that there are several engineered distractions, then people aren't paying attention.

[–] ceenote 25 points 3 days ago

Easy: people get their "news" from places controlled by those C-suites and their boards.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago

Last week at a get-together I actually heard a conservative family member say how the drones in the news are to distract from the important issues like immigration.

This is a standard boomer that keeps news on the living room TV all the damn time. It’s not even the disconnect from both reality and compassion that gets to me any more. It’s how widespread it is, and how the propaganda works even better in the real world than in fiction.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Important to note here the important difference between "mean", aka the average, and "median", the middle number in a set. Assuming Krueger intentionally used "median", the situation is actually worse than people realize.

The average can be affected by large outliers - like billionaires. IF the "average" American makes $50,000 a year, the median could actually be more like $30,000 (totally made up numbers, as an example).

In other words, the median is the more "accurate" number to use in these comparisons because the income of the extremely wealthy has less of an impact on the result.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 days ago (5 children)

You're right about everything, but the post explicitly talks about median for everything but healthcare, so it should be fairly accurate already

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[–] Treczoks 17 points 2 days ago

And the difference went to fill the coffers of the rich.

[–] finitebanjo 33 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] FlyingSquid 7 points 2 days ago

You have good reason to.

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[–] dephyre 78 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

But… I stopped going to Starbucks and quit buying Avocado toast? Can I buy a house yet?

[–] owatnext 33 points 3 days ago (2 children)

You're posting here from a mobile or computer, right? Unless that PC is at the library, you're paying an internet bill of some sort! /s

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[–] Shelbyeileen 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Don't forget that Medicaid and Social Security Disability still have the same $2,000 MAX asset limit (aside from a car and low-value residence). Back in 1974, that was a down payment on a house. Now that isn't enough to rent a place to live, not enough to fix a car, and if you somehow have more than $2k in assets,( (DHS does bank and tax monitoring) they take your medical and food away, despite being disabled. If adjusted for inflation, it would be about $13k. Enough to put a down payment on a small house. A 2k limit enough for people with disabilities is BARBARIC.

I've written to so many politicians about this archaic rule and Lisa McClain told me that it's that low, so that only the truly destitute use it... despite us paying taxes all our lives to protect us from starving. I was told that the disabled weren't as important as older voters who deserve retirement disability.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 3 days ago (1 children)

But the 1% got 100 x wealthier! Ain't that great?

[–] Lemminary 21 points 3 days ago

That means the economy is booming. Fuck yeah! 😎

[–] __matthew__ 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (10 children)

The first stat is a little misleading IMO. While the median car cost has increased ~2x (inflation adjusted), an entry level car price has only gone up ~1.2x (1971 AMC Gremlin vs 2023 Kia Rio LX; $1.8k/$14.8k vs $17.8k) and that's more important for measuring relative quality of life.

Of course add on to that the fact that there's easy access to second hand car markets and the number of features included with that base model vs the 1971 AMC Gremlin and it doesn't seem like things are much worse.

Basically, average car prices increasing could just indicate that people are willing to spend more on cars for whatever reason that may be (better features, more car-centric culture, etc.). For this reason I'd like to see similar stats but about entry level options within each category. Probably less sensationalistic but still interesting.

That being said, I bet stats for the housing market and others would still show a notable increase even at the entry level, but I'd still like to verify this before blindly jumping on the sensationalist bandwagon.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There's another important part of this equation: these are the things being sold. If someone can't afford any car at all, they still wouldn't show up in the entry-level car stats. But I think with how car-centric the US is, there won't be many people going carless? But like you said, if the second hand market is good, everyone could be driving a barely used BMW and they still wouldn't show up in any stats about new cars.

Basically, the only thing these stats tell us is that some people would have to spend a higher proportion of their income if they want to buy these things new. It doesn't tell us if that means they don't buy it, they buy it and go hungry, they buy an alternative, or they buy it without issue (because some other expense is cheaper or disappeared).

Inflation calculations try to account for this by considering a mix of products and services. If everything goes up across the board, people will get in trouble no matter their exact spending habits. You could also look at buying power or discretionary income to see if a population is doing alright.

The prices above increased a little harder than inflation, so you'd expect to see that as a decrease in discretionary income. The same would happen if wages didn't keep up with inflation, which is a happy coincidence? Or exactly what the discretionary income stat is designed to do: show how much financial breathing room people have.

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[–] veganpizza69 8 points 2 days ago

But screens have gotten cheaper per unit of area!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

People see all this and then continue worshiping the state, promoting its fiat paper covered in slavemasters, and actively participating in its planetary destruction. The whole system is a scam. It's completely obvious.

It's ok if people want to criticize crypto because it's also garbage capitalism. But that's nothing compared to what the state is doing...

[–] FlyingSquid 9 points 2 days ago (4 children)

How would you guarantee my safety without a state? What would stop some group of people who decided to rape and pillage from doing so?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Let me save you some time :)

There are never actual well-thought-out answers, just a chain of poorly constructed what-ifs

The answers always put them in control without any guardrails and just require everyone to assume they're good-hearted people with good intentions.

[–] FlyingSquid 7 points 2 days ago

Exactly. And then when you question them further, you often find out that they would not be one of those good-hearted people who would pay them to solve the problem.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 days ago (9 children)

What would stop some group of people who decided to rape and pillage from doing so?

Who is stopping our oligarchs and their CEO lapdogs from doing this now?

Elites in fact rape poor people's children... Healthcare CEO pillage family's bank accounts if one of them has health issues?

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[–] Seaguy05 31 points 3 days ago

Oh oh I got one too. Your McChicken, since 2014 alone, has risen in price 200% from $1 to $2.99. Along with most of their other items. They're artisan dining now, not fast food.

https://www.voronoiapp.com/economy/How-Have-McDonalds-Prices-Changed-Since-2014-1392

[–] WoodScientist 30 points 3 days ago (8 children)

Yeah, this kind of comparison really drives it home. The inflation figures, while not cooked in some grand conspiracy sense, really completely fail to capture the real price increases experienced by real people.

The limitation of CPI is that it is designed for one specific thing, but we end up using it for others. If you want to measure the value of a commodity over time, like a bushel of wheat or a barrel of oil, CPI is OK for that. A bushel of wheat or a barrel of oil now are pretty similar to ones in 1970. But most goods we purchase are not so directly comparable. The CPI calculation tries to compare like goods to like goods, and it applies adjustment factors to the price of goods that aren't constant through time. For example, the TV you can get in 2024 is far, far better than one you could get in 1970. In CPI terms, this means that the real cost of TVs has plummeted by orders of magnitude.

But it goes beyond electronics. Think of homes. People will wring their hands and decry Americans as greedy by citing the size of new homes today vs in 1970, as they have significantly increased. But it's not a matter of greed; you simply cannot buy a new 1200 ft^2 modest home in post places in the country today. They don't make them anymore. Zoning has so restricted housing construction that all new housing has to be luxury housing. Yes, if you actually could find a duplicate of some c. 1970 1200 ft^2 home built new today, it would likely be quite affordable. But in terms of both size and construction details, it's not legal to build homes like that anymore. But this won't show up in the inflation figure. They'll compare the 1200 ft^2 entry-level home in 1970 to whatever rare example of that they can find that is built today of someone building one of those in unzoned farmland in rural North Dakota, and conclude that house prices haven't risen so much. In reality, no one can actually find those homes near job centers.

Or consider college. The college experience of 2024 is vastly different from that of 1970. The MBA class wormed their way into university administration and kicked all the actual academics out of admin. The MBA class see the kids as "customers" rather than pupils or students. And all the colleges and universities, even the state ones, went into MBA customer-seeking overdrive. Colleges have been luxurified. Big fancy dorms, extravagant student unions and study spaces, decadent gym facilities, etc. College at a state school in 1970 was 4 people crowded in a tiny dorm room, where your 'gym' was the campus running track. CPI looks at what it would cost to run a 1970s-style university in 2024, and concludes that college hasn't gone up in price as much as it has. This is one reason community colleges have remained so relatively affordable. By their nature, they deal mostly with commuter students who wouldn't want to use your stupid fancy gym even if you built one.

And the same thing for vehicles. Automakers have chased higher and higher rates of return by making bigger and heavier vehicles. Yes, if you could find a car made today that was an exact duplicate of a 1970s vehicle, it wouldn't have inflated as much. And that's what CPI shows. But it doesn't capture the actual buying options Americans have at their fingertips.

Ultimately, here is what you are doing when you use an inflation calculator and put in 10,000 in 1970 and calculate to today. You are fundamentally saying, "consider the kinds of goods and services average people bought in 1970. If I bought that exact same basket of goods, literal exact duplicates, what would they cost today?"

And for economists, that kind of analysis is useful. If you want to calculate interest rates and GDP growth, CPI works great for that. But for real people in the real world, they cannot simply live like it's still 1970. The affordable options they had then simply no longer exist in the market. Sometimes things have changed for good reasons like product safety, but more often it is simply because the MBA class has turned everything into a luxury good to maximize return on investment. Everything has become a luxury good aimed at the top 20% of earners. And our policy tools for dealing with inflation have been utterly unprepared for this.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Also was the 1971 household income number a single income or dual income like today? If not dual then we are working twice as muchh to make the 5.5x increase

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[–] AdrianTheFrog 24 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Income inequality is also much higher than it was in 1971, it's about where it was at the start of the Great Depression

[–] LengAwaits 21 points 2 days ago
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