this post was submitted on 28 Dec 2024
485 points (81.1% liked)

196

16770 readers
2291 users here now

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other^ ^rules^

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Latest hits: if gender is performative that means it’s fake and patriarchy doesn’t exist! I don’t know who Judith Butler is!

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 days ago (2 children)

This is my first downdoot on a blahaj post post, or probably meme in general... I get it's mostly just a joke, but still.

Cis people aren't all fucked in the head or clueless, just like trans people aren't. Allies are able to push for, or at least support trans rights, and unfortunately are a lifeline for trans folk that get shoved out of discussions for "bias."

The "cis bad" memes just add to the lack of understanding, and force and "us vs them" mentality, based only on gender expression. It's not even an optics thing... It just comes off as wanting to be a victim, before Mr Chadson or Ms Becky have been transphobic, or pushed for a bathroom bill, which almost demands a defensive attidude from them both.

Anyways, I have talked with people that are painfully unaware of how gender works/exists. Whether intentional or not, it is not a great time. I would dip out of the interaction ASAP, unless they are trying to understand or learn, which is kind of rare in most cases.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Emerald 109 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Of course you'll have a better time talking about gender with other gender enthusiasts. It's like complaining about how normies can't have a conversation with you about cars for as long as car enthusiasts could.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 5 days ago (4 children)

‘Gender enthusiasts’ is probably my second favorite euphemism for trans people now. The first being from an old lady who was trying to politely ask if a woman was trans and asked if she was “a woman by choice” 😂

[–] Emerald 29 points 5 days ago (2 children)

starts recording

Okay YouTube, this is my list of the TOP 10 genders of 2024! Tell me how many on this list you know about in the comments below. Leave a like and subscribe and let's get into it. I'll also be having a new video out soon about the best genders upcoming in 2025.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 5 days ago

But before we get into todays video I would like to thank todays sponsor. This video has been sponsored by the Association of Gay Frogs

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago

"factory stock" vs. "aftermarket custom"

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Y'all overclock your gender?

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

I rather like the sound of "a woman by choice", since it implies she is a woman, that it is a choice, and that the choice does apply. I'd be curious to hear opinions from trans people about that, but it seems very respectful.

[–] GraniteM 19 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] Emerald 6 points 4 days ago

Love it. Relevant xkcd

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

You can replace the left one with "comms about the bridge with operating thetans" and the right one with " comms about the bridge with pre-clear wogs"

I personally feel like people are trying to make gender into something more like a personality type system, or certainly much more than it is. While the level of detail is interesting to some extent I guess, having it all under the umbrella of gender seems unfitting. Especially considering how many of them are plainly descriptions of sexualities, with no obvious reason to call then genders instead. It's also pretty clear that a majority of people don't think what these genders describe are at all reflective of reality, a lot of them are spiritual/religious.

The current set is a very strange construct, and it's obvious scrutiny is unwelcome with how ridiculous many of the listings are. Fluxstatic, for example: "...a combination of genderflux and genderstill; a more specific subset of genderflux that isn’t genderfluid. I.e. the label doesn't change or only changes along the agender to surgender line for that gender but the intensity does fluctuate."

Which is a blatantly insane way of trying to say "Sometimes you wear less girly clothes and don't wear makeup and act less stereotypically girly.", later using a battery analogy to try to explain their convoluted thought process. This overcomplicated label for something so simple is so broad it'd be difficult to find someone it wouldn't apply to. This label being defined like this does not educate anyone, and listing it on a wiki does nothing for anyone but the writer.

Now I guess I'm going to be banned for this bit of unwelcome scrutiny.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] finitebanjo 51 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (7 children)

The fact that it's an evenly split partisan issue with only 0.5% of the population being trans means that you have A LOT of cis allies. Like, statistically, you're more likely to meet several dozens of understanding people than another trans person unless you actively limit your exposure of non-trans people.

There are probably some (not many but some) trans people who conform to binary gender identity beliefs, too, they simply want to be the other gender.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 56 points 5 days ago (2 children)

"That's right! It goes in the square hole!"

[–] [email protected] 38 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't remember this part of sex ed.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 days ago (1 children)

American sex ed fails again.

[–] StupidBrotherInLaw 4 points 4 days ago

Americans get sex ed??

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Talking about trains with my fellow train drivers:

Talking about trains with those fucking idiot bus drivers who don't know shit:

[–] [email protected] 40 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Im a cis person(tho probably not the kind you meant) and i think talking about gender is pretty tiring. I think everyone has their biases and everything but you can make yourself a good person by trying to understand why you have those biasesa at least. And also gender is a prettt complex thing.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 5 days ago (2 children)

If you’re being open minded and respectful even if you don’t understand something (or disengaging if you can’t) then probably 99% of trans people, myself included, aren’t going to have any issue with your questions or contributions to discussions about gender

It’s the (usually cis) people who are at Gender 101 level engagement, think they’re at Gender 501 level engagement, and also want to understand and learn nothing who make this so goddamn tiring 🥲

[–] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago (4 children)

lol no disrespect, but you did just say “be open minded and respectful” after posting a meme equating all cis people to idiot babies

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Let's be honest here, that's a long way of saying "the vast majority of people couldn't give a shit either way how I live my life but they just really really wish I'd stop talking about myself for a minute" 😂

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 34 points 5 days ago

there are so many people out there who can not fathom that the world could in fact be more complex than the version of it presented to them when they were children.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I got hit with the exact opposite yesterday: "gender cannot be only performative because patriarchy exists and that would mean invalidating people hurt by it"

So tiring

[–] rockSlayer 33 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

So close yet so far, the entire point is that it's performative and therefore millions of people were hurt for no real reason.

[–] Valmond 17 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Can you please explain this in simple words to someone not knowing too much about how gender is 'performative' ?

I'm not a native speaker but I'm usually okay but new things needs to be learned :-)

A link is welcomed too ofc!

[–] [email protected] 37 points 5 days ago (11 children)

Stealing the answer because I'm nowhere near as articulate on this matter:

The basic (and simplified) idea is that gender--what we think of as masculine and/or feminine--is performed in the ways we act, speak, dress, move, etc. and doesn't really exist outside of that performance. We learn how to perform this way from dominant culture and conventions--what someone might (incorrectly) call "normal male" or "normal female" behavior. But these "normal" qualities (and genders themselves) don't actually exist--rather, we are all repeatedly mimicking them and are rewarded for doing so (or punished for not doing so). We merely impersonate the qualities we've been taught match the gender we've been told we possess (like females being demure or males being aggressive) until those impersonations (and gender itself) become belief and seen as something natural and assumed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/4dddcq/eli5butlers_gender_performativity/

[–] Valmond 14 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Thank you very much!

Very simple to understand too IMO.

load more comments (10 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago (4 children)

The more I look into genders and try to understand it the less I understand. On the gender wiki (apparently gender is so complex it has its own wiki??) I was reading about 'genderfae' and 'genderfoe' kinda understanding it, kinda not. But when I got to the comments and I saw "gender ≠ pronouns" in the comments and I just gave up trying to understand anything 😭
I'm sure I'll look into it more at some point but for a '3am browsing Wikipedia because I can't sleep™️' adventure I did not have the critical thinking for that level of thought

[–] Jumi 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

When someone tells me their gender I nod and move on. I neither really care nor do I care to understand it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago

Exactly my thoughts.

I'll call you whatever you want, as long as it's not too wacky.

It's all good as long as you feel comfortable in your own skin. I couldn't care less what you identify as, it doesn't impact my life in the slightes.

You do you.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

FWIW I would consider regular Wikipedia a much better source to learn about transgender 101 topics, the stuff you’re talking about is really niche even within the trans community, haha

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

The gender wiki is a bit much for me. I think a lot of its articles need to get revised a bit.

[–] Soleos 4 points 4 days ago

I see it as a heightened period of different people "trying shit out" when it comes to new gender identities. None of these are necessarily definitive norms that will define future society. As with any aspect of language and culture, it's a part of an ongoing process of evolutionary change, adaptation, and discovery. Some might call it a church, some might call it a shifting paradigm, but it's always going to be a bit messy and won't necessarily make perfect sense right away.

[–] [email protected] 22 points 5 days ago

I literally had a moment today where I had to explain to a coworker that some feminine presenting women can have xy chromosomes or swyer syndrome. That apparently jenga towered his cis male beliefs on gender.

[–] CEbbinghaus 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The real problem is that studying human behaviour when it comes to gender/sex is inherently flawed as any attempts to isolate nature & nurture would be inhumane. Imagine raising a baby from birth to adulthood never having interacted with another human being just to see whether they portray the behaviours we associate with their gender / sex.

My personal opinion is that it's probably a little of column A, & a little of column B. The higher levels of testosterone in the male sex would naturally lead to higher levels of aggressiveness. But the extent to which that would impact our daily behaviours is a huge unknown. Presumably it accounts for enough to be measurable but not enough to make a difference. But who knows.

P.s If you know more about this than me and have a study that disagrees with me please post it. Haven't done my research as this isn't something I think about day to day.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I think someone in the 1900s tried isolating a baby from human contact and it just died of stress.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›