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Dems had a Rogan, it was Rogan. He supported Bernie in 2016. Hillary and co. derided them as Bernie Bros, and well, we know what happened next.
Hell I bet the DNC neolibs have a fairly low opinion of folks like Hasan or Chapo Trap House, who both do absolute numbers.
Libs hate people like Hasan and Chapo cause they criticize Dems and Republicans while espousing leftist policies. They don't want to hear the actual solutions to problems because it conflicts with their worldview, and the donors don't like that.
“People saying Harris should have done Joe Rogan are missing the point. That wouldn’t have helped her,” argued The Nation legal commentator Elie Mystal on X. “Liberals need to BUILD THEIR OWN JOE ROGAN. Somebody who can speak to the people he speaks to, without being a guy who wants to kiss ass to billionaires like Elon Musk.”
Rogan endorsed Bernie in 2020. They could clearly win over Rogan and his viewers, but they would just need a progressive message from an authentic candidate. These people think it would be easier to reproduce the success of the most popular podcast of all time rather than give people a candidate they want to vote for.
Rogan doesn't need to be won over. He knows exactly what he's doing, and that's exploiting stupid people for profit.
Oh, I don't think that's true at all. Rogan is stupid people. He's a very good interviewer, but he's not particularly clever. He's also not an idealogue or grifter like Shapiro or Crowder either. Half the time, his show and guests aren't even political. He's gone down a right wing rabbit hole, but he got their honestly by having right-wing idealogues on and being swayed by them (because, again, he's not very clever). We shouldn't be trying to astroturf a version his show, we should be sending smart, charismatic leftists on his show to push back.
This. The Dems are doing literally anything they can to avoid blaming their messaging.
"Swayed."
Knowing what to kiss and when.
The shit on the right is all fed by the same poison shit. Their opinions are colored, and enforced by liars pushing an agenda. If the left is to be successful they will need a different tactic. Liberals, and progressives aren’t as fearful as conservatives. The reason the propaganda is so successful is largely due to the cowardice of republicans. It sounds like I’m just talking shit, but look at their talking points. Everything is based on fear. I would love to see a media operation as successful on the left, but it can’t use the same formula.
Honestly a "left Joe Rogan" isn't going to pick up at all with the left because we aren't into tribal bullshit. We don't follow personalities over policies. If AOC said tomorrow "lol Mexicans" the left would shun her because she isn't aligned anymore with core values of being a decent person. Nobody wants a Joe Rogan on the left because left leaning voters care about the idea of a functional government more than they care about how a figurehead feels about the government.
Whats really appealing about people like Bernie is that for 60 years he's said the exact same things regardless of the personalities and political winds shifting. It's the clear optimistic integrity that's appealing, not Bernie himself. I want healthcare, I don't give a shit who is giving it to me. Democrats need to have a handful of under 55s who simply want simple stuff and are LOUD and CONSTANT about it. It's better to have a coordinated party than individual podcasters.
From what I’ve seen, and I’m in enough of a bubble to need to clarify that, they would do well to simply stop trying to court the right who will hate them for existing and instead go after the millions of left-wing voters who are right there. They refuse to, of course, which means they’re either stupid or prefer trying to do things the hard way over the easy and right way.
This isn’t a hot take, it’s all over everywhere, but yea.
They refuse to, of course, which means they’re either stupid or prefer trying to do things the hard way over the easy and right way.
Or they don't consider the left wing to be potential allies, because the actual left wing doesn't answer to the same interests as the Democratic Party.
It's probably more that they don't consider the left wing to be reliable voters. Right wingers are frequently single-issue voters, they'll vote for someone who disagrees with them on everything except their one pet issue (abortion, guns, whatever). Left wingers are frequently every issue voters, they'll abstain out of protest if a candidate agrees with them on everything except one thing.
That makes it much easier to gather right wing voters, all you have to do is have the right answer for a handful of issues, and you'll gather supporters for each of those issues individually. To gather left wingers, you have to perfectly align with every one of them, which is straight up impossible.
It’s probably more that they don’t consider the left wing to be reliable voters.
Because they aren't. Just like the youth vote isn't.
That is an accurate assessment. Honestly, I’m disgusted most of the time. It’s difficult seeing people behave like assheads in pursuit of money, and favor.
Jon Stewart and John Oliver already exist.
As does Joe Rogan. The only episode I've seen was his chat with Bernie. If you want Joe Rogan to believe anything, all you have to do is appear on the show. He will sit there, and smoke a blunt with you while agreeing with everything you say.
I like Stewart and Oliver but both have the schtick of “look how absurdly stupid these people are, we’re fucked, we must do better.”
That’s fine for what it is but what it is is watching someone else describing the scary thing and then express the fear you’re feeling. It’s cathartic but I think I don’t think it changes anyone’s mind.
People like Rogan get people to commiserate and identify with them and their feelings. Then, they come up with some crazy idea, institution or person to blame. It’s sort of the reverse order of Stewart and Oliver. So, they get people feeling first then get them to blame someone, the “libs”, usually.
The problem the Dems have is they still can’t show they are sympathetic to an audience like Rogan’s. Bernie can. But, even progressives like AOC, Tlaib, etc. don’t seem to be able to relate to rural/suburban, low-education, low-income people.
People like Rogan get people to commiserate and identify with them and their feelings. Then, they come up with some crazy idea, institution or person to blame. It’s sort of the reverse order of Stewart and Oliver. So, they get people feeling first then get them to blame someone, the “libs”, usually.
This is the way conspiratorial thinking works in general. Come up with the feeling, or come up with the conclusion, and then find spurious bullshit to link your enemies to it. Instead of following the evidence, cherry pick the evidence that agrees with your conclusion.
The Democrats have a half of a point though, they're basically not present at all in the new media ecosystem that very online idiots live in.
"Democrats lack a comparable media ecosystem due to limited funding from megadonors, "
The Harris-Walz campaign raised a billion dollars. They don't need any more megadonors or beyonce or taylor swift. The need to fight for the working class and human rights
Okay maybe OR-- and just hear me out here-- Maybe the problem is not enough money in politics?
I bet this will go as well as when they tried creating Air America to combat right wing talk radio.
There is, and has been, a large number of left-wing podcasts. But the Dems don't want to pump money into Chapo Trap House, Five-Four, or the Cool Zone network. They want Ezra Klein to be as cool as Rogan.
They refuse to meet people at their level, and its killing the party.
Yeah but I also absolutely can’t imagine any of these people going hard dem unless the Dems go hard left. Now I do think that a lot of the cracked folks, can be the left wing voices to alienated men, and I’ve noticed Robert Evans has been trying to be a voice of that for a long time (and serious kudos to him for it).
I also think that we only have one major left wing voice that has ever been particularly good at breaking people out of the alt right pipeline, Contrapoints, and I think we’d seriously benefit from encouraging further use of her tactics.
It seemed like every time I tried to listen to that, I kept hearing Randi Rhodes. Some of the others that came out of there still have good things to say, like Thom Hartmann and Cenk.
I don't know what Al Franken has been up to lately.
But yeah, if there was something as funny as the Daily Show, but always something you could switch over to even on terrestrial radio, I think it'd be good to have something to combat all the hatriot radio...
Or, you know, the democratic candidate could go on the Joe Rogan podcast. Sanders did, and Rogan endorsed him.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/25/joe-rogan-bernie-sanders-endorsement-democrats
We had John Stewart and have had John Oliver. But once a week for both of them is too little when Rogan can puke shit nonstop.
Not sure it would ever be enough.
Given that 'college graduates' seem to be the group least likely to be fooled by fascist propaganda and idiotic brocasts; Education takes time and commitment (and diplomas are expensive). While there's an unlimited supply of 'non-college' voters who are... let's say easily weaponized to billionaire's causes.
Not to mention the latest generation seems the most hopeless and nihilistic of all, fueled by failed politics and supreme court (and social media garbage that causes brain damage).
The only hope I have left is that T****'s second term is such a terrible fucking nightmare that it produces an unbeatable progressive, populist left-wing that steamrolls the Democratic primaries. (lol, lmao even. RIP America.)
Poor John, that shit crushed him.
The problem is jre wasn't that way to start. It was a (supposed) comedian bullshitting with his friends then developed into what it is now.
The act of being funny stops once you start huffing your own farts like Rogan. When you think you're making a crazy point when you literally tell dick jokes for a living.
I don't know if something like that'll happen. Think jre is lightning in a bottle for meatheaded couch philosophers.
Idk, i recently stumbled on his stand-up comedy from the 90s and that was already pretty borderline and cringe. At least to me it looked like jre today is a pretty natural evolution of that.
So we need someone with infinite curiosity, bottomless gullibility, boundless confidence, and inability to learn.
I mean...I guess....
James Carville is like right there.
Unfortunately that hairless elbow golem is exactly the kind of clueless neolib that voters just rejected.
Yes. Inability to learn was one of the criteria.
We need to shut down the firehose of bullshit, not contribute to it.
I don't really think this brand of nonsense peddling works for the left. There are already many, many comedians on the left providing left or left leaning takes and not shoveling conspiracy garbage onto their shows... Jon Stewart, John Oliver for example. They're popular, but they aren't going to seize the same crowd as Rogan.
Please don’t. One Broprah is too many.
Seems more like a further slide to the right by democrats.
This sort of strategy is only going to alienate many on the left, because populism like this can only stroke reactionary feelings and not progressive movements.
It’s perfectly fine to build up a milquetoast reactionary centralist movement who lack any tools to enact change, and it may help some feel like they are doing the right thing. More power to them, I guess.
Somebody who can speak to the people he speaks to, without being a guy who wants to kiss ass to billionaires like Elon Musk
It's a packaged deal. They wouldn't land those types of interviews if you changed that.
You're looking for Jon Stewart. There is zero chance Musk et al would face that.
Messaging is a problem but when one side hands out mental candy bars while the other is urging you to prep fresh meals because it's healthier... We all know average folks going for the candy bar. How do you educate and sound appealing. People seem so disillusioned with well reality they've made their own.
I've had thoughts of doing a left leaning version of something similar, but instead just go over the most batshit things bashing the right. Wouldn't do it now because I don't know how safe I'd be.
Some things I came up with are:
The Republicans are pushing so hard on oil because it created autism and the gay. And they need them so they can push their agenda.
God put racists on Earth to test his followers and those who fell for it have proven they are bad Christians destined to go to Hell.
Megapastors were sent by the Devil to corrupt Christians by turning the kids into Satan worshiping pedos.
The church of Satan/Satanists were sent by God to prevent Satan from being able to invade Heaven. The more Satanists, the less chance he can invade.