My first and third job had daily standup, my second and fourth job don't have daily standup. I'm on my fourth job. I love not having standup.
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
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I love how bright bulbs have utterly perverted the spirit of agile development into something so horrible that people are memifying ignoring it rather than trying to fix it.
Repeat after me: If standup takes any more than a minute or two per person you're really really doing it wrong and it isn't standup anymore and needs to be staked, buried and the earth salted that it may never rise again.
For an act of socially immature but oh so satisfying passive aggressive resistance, leave a copy of the Agile Manifesto on your scrum master's desk :)
(Or, if you think they'd be receptive, talk to them about moving long form reporting to any other medium so stand-up can be a simple meeting where folks give blocked/not blocked status and, where blocked, resources are directed to help.
that's it.
Stand-ups where Mortimer from the Front End team gives a 30 minute treatise on why react is a horrible fit for your application ARE IN FACT NOT STAND-UPS.
They're just poorly run meetings in an agile trench coat.
Most standups are bad because they're not used as a quick collaboration tool, they're used as a demonstration to prove you're working, and then the least productive people talk the most because they're the most desperate to prove they're working.
Right along with story points.
Not meant to be a measurement of time, but of effort. But everyone ends up using them as a measure of time because that is what the MBA at the end of the tables wants.
My current company treats effort the same as time. I can appreciate that they're at least honest about that lol
If I was a in charge of a business I would put a hard email filter (including externally) on corporate jargon because it is too vague and people just use it to seem smarter than they really are. The no-reply would give a lengthy explanation on why it's bad practice.
Hmm, I wonder how often it would generate a false positive and force someone to reword something innocuous. My guess is that it would be relatively rare.
Dope. Put garbage language where it belongs.
I called in sick today so I could skip all the meetings lol
If your stand-up is that stressful and takes less than 30 seconds to a minute per speaker, you need to find a better job.
Unless thus is about stand-up comedy. In that case, you're 100% right.
*more than 30 seconds to a minute?
Correct, edited my post, thanks
Lol our standup+parking lot is scheduled for an hour. Kill me.
I've fought this battle so many times.
My most recent battle was being told to implement Scrum and agile practices. When the subject of standup NOT being a status update came up, and I forcibly told people to keep their updates brief, it was changed to a "Sync Meeting" that lasted over an hour. Apparently, despite delivering stuff faster, being able to track velocity and ensure we're not overextending ourselves each "sprint", and actually knowing what we're delivering through actionable tasks - we're not doing agile any more...
It took me a year but I broke my team of this habit. The trick was to remind them that the parking lot shouldn't be scheduled. The whole point is that you continue conversations organically so that it's more like the beginning of a working session instead of the end of a meeting.
The stand-ups at my job have turned into sit downs
The whole reason you're supposed to be standing up is to keep them short…
That's the exact problem I have with it
I'm happy when it just takes that amount of time, because everything else is just a waste of time...
My boss doesn't do meetings. Every once in a while he approves my vacation request and I get notified it's approved. Sounds better than it is, but it is better than pointless daily meetings. Adult daycare crap.
My new boss just cancelled all of our daily standup meetings that were introduced by the previous management. Reason given: "I have seen nothing valuable here during the last two weeks."
I like him.
My boss is usually doing WFM and HR duties instead of her own, so no meetings for me either! So far I have a perfect performance record!
I get every week or so, but every day is just way too much. I'm a big kid, that's what you hired me for, let me work.
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Didn't see what community I was in when I read the post and thought there were just a lot of people here who hate stand up comedians doing crowd work
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My dumb ass: " Wtf how often do you have to go to comedy stand ups for it to be self care NOT to go. SMH."
If this actually rings true, there's something pretty wrong in your team.
Stand up should be a quick and uncontroversial meeting talking about what you've done, what you'll do and anything you need help with, plus maybe a couple of minutes of small talk before you start.
Problem is in practice, I suspect something is pretty wrong in most teams.
Some common examples come to my mind:
- Management hears "talk about what you've done and what you will do" so great time to sit in and take notes for performance review, and it becomes a "make sure management knows you spent all your time and did really impressive stuff" meeting. Also throws a kink in "things I need help with" as there's always the risk that management decides you aren't self sufficient enough if they hear you got stuck, so you also need to defend why you got stuck and how it isn't your fault.
- The people who feel like everyone needs to know the minutia of their trials and tribulations including all the intermediate dead ends they went down on the way to their final result. Related to the above, but there are people who think to do this even without the need to impress management.
- The people who cannot stand to "take it offline" and will stop everything to fully work a problem while everyone is still ostensibly supposed to stay in the meeting despite having nothing to do with the two people talking (sometimes even just one, a guy starts talking to himself as he tries to do something live).
- Groups that are organized but have very little common ground. An "everything must be scrum" company sticks a guy who does stuff like shipping and receiving into a development team and there's no 'scrum-like' interaction to be had and yet, there he is wasting his time and having to talk about stuff no one else on that meeting has a need to hear either.
My team does this for the first ~15 minutes and then we move to "group think" for any tough problems or "water cooler chat" for the remaining 15. You're allowed to leave if it's just water cooler chat, so I really like it
That sounds about 25 mins longer than i'm willing to call a standup.
if it's not wrapped up within 10 mins of the scheduled start time something has gone horribly wrong
You mean you're not actually supposed to spend 2 hours daily unfucking everyone's shit during the standup turn by turn?
We waste the two hours doing code reviews that only three people actually need to be present for, I always appreciate the chance to zone out and do something else for a big part of the day. Follow that with lunch and I've just done half a day's work by watching TV
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Counterpoint: If you're working from home it might be the only people contact you get for days.
Supposedly talking to people and touching grass is healthy.
My fear of working full-remote. I mean I got enough friends, but still that's significant less social time, when not being in something like a coworking space... Although other benefits are really tempting (like 2 to 3 times the salary)
Wait, you earn more to not commute?
I mean I can just take a job in the states, they pay quite a bit more there compared to Europe, and it can be even more targeted in the area of my interest (low-level stuff in Rust which pays even better than what I can find here)... Locally the jobs are pretty limited (at least those that interest me)... Everyone wants Java/C# or JS devs here (all languages I'll try to avoid, and I suspect it has to do with maintaining old (tech-debt) code-bases which I try to avoid even more)... But I'm quite happy with my team currently and just have rant about JS everyday, but at least don't have to maintain tech-debt (at least not something that I haven't produced myself^^)... And I get great food for free... Hmm trade-offs.
Hmm, are they finally hiring internationally? Americans are historically funny about that.
I mean at least the jobs that interest me often are also (full) remote, but I'm mostly interested in start-ups, they seem to be more open with it (and the job descriptions sound more interesting). I think Covid did its job there, unlike it seems for big tech?
The purpose of stand up is to not listen to anything and say a sentence that no one listens to. It's like a Buddhist meditation.
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In a standup comedy act whenever I get on my feet (optional).
Dont really have a choice in not attending that event.
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