this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024
1030 points (98.5% liked)

News

23599 readers
3518 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

SpaceX’s Starship launches at the company’s Starbase facility near Boca Chica, Texas, have allegedly been contaminating local bodies of water with mercury for years. The news arrives in an exclusive CNBCreport on August 12, which cites internal documents and communications between local Texas regulators and the Environmental Protection Agency.

SpaceX’s fourth Starship test launch in June was its most successful so far—but the world’s largest and most powerful rocket ever built continues to wreak havoc on nearby Texas communities, wildlife, and ecosystems. But after repeated admonishments, reviews, and ignored requests, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) have had enough.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 174 points 4 months ago (14 children)

I would be exactly 0% shocked to learn this was true.

[–] [email protected] 75 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'd be shocked if Abbott didn't try to give them a Texas Medal of Freedom award for doing this.

[–] HoustonHenry 27 points 4 months ago (2 children)

And for removing water breaks for workers when it's really hot out

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Plastic_Ramses 18 points 4 months ago

And with Chevron ruling they wont face any repercussions!

Isnt crony capitalism great!?!?!?!

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 163 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (30 children)

Ok so, going to the CNBC article and my own memory, as charitably summarized as I can:

Boca Chica is originally built with certain parameters and specifications, before Musk announced they would be doing all of the testing for Starship at that location.

Then, SpaceX just started doing so, and then asked for permission from relevant regulatory bodies ... later.

At this point, Common Sense Skeptic on YouTube did a video or two specifically going into the details of exactly how bonkers it is to do huge scale rocket testing basically half a kilometer away from protected nature zones.

Then, one of the Starship tests blew apart huge parts of the launch pad after Elon had said that would not be a problem.

Then, Elon folded on that notion, and built the water deluge system and modified the launching configuration, without getting any permits beforehand from relevant regulatory agencies.

So the run off from all that water has been going into a protected natural environment for... about a year now.

The EPA began investigating this in August of 2023, and informed SpaceX they were in violation in March of 2024.

Literally the day after SpaceX was formally notified their water deluge system was in violation, SpaceX did its third Starship test, again using the water deluge system.

Now, cue SpaceX lying all over the place, saying that they've been told they were allowed to do this the whole time, and that there were no detectable levels of mercury in the discharge, even though their own permit that they belatedly filed indicates the detectable level of mercury in the discharge were about 50x the safe level.

SpaceX said in its response on X that there were “no detectable levels of mercury” found in its samples. But SpaceX wrote in its permit application that its mercury concentration at one outfall location was 113 micrograms per liter. Water quality criteria in the state calls for levels no higher than 2.1 micrograms per liter for acute aquatic toxicity and much lower levels for human health.

To conclude:

“Further wastewater discharges could trigger more investigations and criminal charges for the company or any of the people involved in authorizing the launches,” he said.

  • Eric Roesch, Environmental Engineer

Basically, the environmental aspects of this have been a known and ongoing shit show for over a year, but have only been covered by a few YouTube channels and blogs, vastly drowned out by the cacophony of SpaceX fans.

I highly suggest every one check out Common Sense Skeptic on YouTube, they have been calling bullshit on SpaceX for a while now.

In particular, one interesting vid they did shows that a former NASA administrator bullshitted her own request for project process to get it awarded to SpaceX, using blatant double standards.

I say former NASA admin because quite quickly after rubber stamping a huge amount of taxpayer money toward Starship development, she now works for SpaceX.

[–] teamevil 34 points 4 months ago

Good thing the supreme Court expects companies to not do this shit

[–] Fuckfuckmyfuckingass 25 points 4 months ago

Thank you very much for the synopsis. I am disgusted and unsurprised.

[–] Raiderkev 11 points 4 months ago

Don't worry, with the Chevron ruling out of the way, this can be thrown out in court and promptly swept under the rug. 💪🇺🇲🦅

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I’m very curious as to who this NASA admin is…no name comes to mind?

[–] villainy 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (26 replies)
[–] [email protected] 67 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

When sending probes to Mars or other rocky bodies, NASA is very careful about biological contamination. They don't want to seed the planet with some extremophile, or contaminate their own samples and mistakenly think it's native life.

When SpaceX wants to go to Mars and is also doing this shit, why should we trust them to take the same care?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Burn_The_Right 61 points 4 months ago (6 children)

TCEQ has no power to enforce anything in Texas without the Governor and AG's cooperation. Mark my words. As long as Texas is run by conservatives, absolutely nothing at all will be done to protect the environment in Texas. Absolutely nothing. Everything related to the environment is performative in Texas, not substantive.

Conservatives delight in pollution. They equate pollution with freedom. Conservatives in Texas intentionally choose vehicles with the worst exhaust, they litter, they dump chemicals directly down drains, into sewers and into waterways, they "roll coal", they joyfully embrace chemical plants and they mock absolutely anyone who has any problem with dirty air or water. If you can't handle chemical-laden air, you are considered weak or "librul". Clean water is for pussies.

There's a reason the number one cancer research center in the U.S. is based in Houston. The air is famously polluted by nearby refineries that do not report what they release into the air to the public. They are permitted to "self-report" that they are not violating any rules, but there is no actual check performed by TCEQ without a great deal of advance notice and preparation.

Texas is a conservative haven of airborne and waterborne carcinogens. Musk knew that when he moved here. That's the reason polluters move here. Because conservatives fucking love pollution.

When I hear of a conservative in Texas getting a brutal form of cancer, I just smile and nod because I presume they've achieved their goal. It's the only silver lining in Texas, other than the silver-laden clouds.

[–] d00phy 9 points 4 months ago

Agreed. I’ve read an article hear and there over the past couple years about this and how a reckoning is coming. Space-X leaving California in favor of Texas is too big an advertisement for their brand. They won’t do anything to upset the Musky child.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 50 points 4 months ago (2 children)

And you just know Texas lawmakers were fine with this because the right people got paid off to look the other way by Musk.

The dangers of mercury poisoning are well understood. We're talking about insanity, paralysis and death. Nobody can pull a, "we had no idea" excuse. Google "Minimata Japan disaster" if you want to know what happens when a corporation poisons people with mercury for nearly 40 years.

[–] Sarmyth 26 points 4 months ago (7 children)

This is how they make more Republicans.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] NOT_RICK 41 points 4 months ago (7 children)

What would they even be using mercury for?

[–] [email protected] 51 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Dumping into the water. It is an overall expense, and not related to the business interests. They just needed some evil villain stuff going on because Elon really wants to meet Captain Planet.

[–] MegaUltraChicken 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Elon probably picked up old timey hat making during one of his ketamine binges or something.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (5 replies)
[–] acetanilide 15 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Elon's daily dose. It takes a lot to get on his level.

Just kidding, but it seems like something to do with the fuel/exhaust.

I've read multiple articles and the most I've gotten is that their first launch didn't have the cleaner fuel that future launches did. I am not sure how that would cause repeated incidents... perhaps it's from metal parts in the rockets? 🤔 I could have missed something as I was reading but hopefully someone else will know the answer.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Pretty annoying the article doesn't even explain.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Dramaking37 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Texas government probably requires you poison people to operate in the State.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 33 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Nothing wrong with this after Trump wins, guts the EPA, and staffs it full of loyal cronies. This is one of the big goals for Project 2025.

Because regulations are bad, right?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] NotMyOldRedditName 26 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (16 children)

SpaceX has replied to the CNBC report

https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1823080774012481862

For those not wanting to click an X link

CNBC’s story on Starship’s launch operations in South Texas is factually inaccurate.

Starship’s water-cooled flame deflector system is critical equipment for SpaceX’s launch operations. It ensures flight safety and protects the launch site and surrounding area.

Also known as the deluge system, it applies clean, potable (drinking) water to the engine exhaust during static fire tests and launches to absorb the heat and vibration from the rocket engines firing. Similar equipment has long been used at launch sites across the United States – such as Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral Space Force Stations in Florida, and Vandenberg Space Force Base in California – and across the globe.

SpaceX worked with the Texas Commission of Environmental Quality (TCEQ) throughout the build and test of the water deluge system at Starbase to identify a permit approach. TCEQ personnel were onsite at Starbase to observe the initial tests of the system in July 2023, and TCEQ’s website shows that SpaceX is covered by the Texas Multi-Sector General Permit.

When the EPA issued their Administrative Order in March 2024, it was done without an understanding of basic facts of the deluge system’s operation or acknowledgement that we were operating under the Texas Multi-Sector General Permit.

After we explained our operation to the EPA, they revised their position and allowed us to continue operating, but required us to obtain an Individual Permit from TCEQ, which will also allow us to expand deluge operations to the second pad. We’ve been diligently working on the permit with TCEQ, which was submitted on July 1st, 2024. TCEQ is expected to issue the draft Individual Permit and Agreed Compliance Order this week.

Throughout our ongoing coordination with both TCEQ and the EPA, we have explicitly asked if operation of the deluge system needed to stop and we were informed that operations could continue.

TCEQ and the EPA have allowed continued operations because the deluge system has always complied with common conditions set by an Individual Permit, and causes no harm to the environment. Specifically:

  • We only use potable (drinking) water in the system’s operation. At no time during the operation of the deluge system is the potable water used in an industrial process, nor is the water exposed to industrial processes before or during operation of the system.
  • The launch pad area is power-washed prior to activating the deluge system, with the power-washed water collected and hauled off.
  • The vast majority of the water used in each operation is vaporized by the rocket’s engines.
  • We send samples of the soil, air, and water around the pad to an independent, accredited laboratory after every use of the deluge system, which have consistently shown negligible traces of any contaminants. Importantly, while CNBC's story claims there are “very large exceedances of the mercury” as part of the wastewater discharged at the site, all samples to-date have in fact shown either no detectable levels of mercury whatsoever or found in very few cases levels significantly below the limit the EPA maintains for drinking water.
  • Retention ponds capture excess water and are specially lined to prevent any mixing with local groundwater. Any water captured in these ponds, including water from rainfall events, is pumped out and hauled off.
  • Finally, some water does leave the area of the pad, mostly from water released prior to ignition and after engine shutdown or launch. To give you an idea of how much: a single use of the deluge system results in potable water equivalent to a rainfall of 0.004 inches across the area outside the pad which currently averages around 27 inches of rain per year.

With Starship, we’re revolutionizing humanity’s ability to access space with a fully reusable rocket that plays an integral role in multiple national priorities, including returning humans to the surface of the Moon. SpaceX and its thousands of employees work tirelessly to ensure the United States remains the world’s leader in space, and we remain committed to working with our local and federal partners to be good stewards of the environment.

[–] TheDemonBuer 33 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Any and all claims being made by SpaceX should be verified by an objective third party. We should never simply take a company at their word, but that is especially true of a company that has Elon Musk, a man known to disseminate falsehoods as its Chair, CEO, and CTO.

[–] d00phy 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The cornerstone of all annual business ethics training so many drones (like me) have to endure every year: If you’re known for being dishonest, people will stop believing you. According to the training, they’ll also stop doing business with you, so maybe it’s a bit out of date.

[–] TheDemonBuer 10 points 4 months ago

According to the training, they’ll also stop doing business with you, so maybe it’s a bit out of date.

It is baffling. I, for one, would never buy any product or service from a company associated with Musk, but many other people are not so discerning.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Water is hauled off... where? Beyond the environment?

[–] Burn_The_Right 11 points 4 months ago

It's OK. There's a creek down the road that doesn't have any fish left. It goes right out to the gulf, so it's all good.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Probably to a proper treatment facility like all other potentially bad water goes.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (14 replies)
[–] LEDZeppelin 23 points 4 months ago

Don’t just blame Elon/ SpaSex, blame Texas republicans for allowing this “California Elite” to poison Texas water

[–] FlyingSquid 22 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Maybe people will finally stop praising SpaceX?

[–] Atrichum 11 points 4 months ago

SpaceX fans have known about this for a long time now, and they just don't care. They've shouted down anyone who has pointed it out for well over a year now

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Y'all actually need to read the article before commenting:

One of the major initial concerns—the wastewater’s mercury content—stems from what experts believe may be egregious typos within SpaceX’s records. Lab reports indicate polluted waters contained 0.113 μg/L of mercury, while subsequent summaries appear to misplace the decimal point to show 113 μg/L. If the former measurement is accurate, then Starship’s wastewater contains roughly 1/17th the legal mercury limit.

SpaceX has done some shady shit regarding their environmental practices, but this claim about mercury just ain't it. Some of the comments further down go into more detail.

[–] DarkCloud 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

That says if the former figure is accurate... But if it's the latter? Then it's 100 times more than 1/17th which would mean it's waaay more than the legal limit... So it depends in which is the typo.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] jumjummy 20 points 4 months ago (1 children)

One of the many reasons he moved to Texas. This is what you get when your state is so “business friendly”. All the complaining about California and the related regulations, but this is what those regulations are supposed to prevent (yes I know there are still plenty of examples of companies polluting in CA).

The Chevron ruling is absolutely a blatant effort to neuter all of these government oversight departments to allow businesses to accelerate their “line go up” polluting efforts.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Why is there mercury in the deluge water? Where is it coming from? It's not 'regular water' somehow?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago (3 children)

So? Having Drinking Water that DOESNT make you sick is NOT Pro Life!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

You're telling me the part that doesn't care about feeding kids, universal health care, clean water, and clean air but is pro gun, pro war, and pro forced birth isn't Pro Life? SHOCKED!

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 4 months ago

Abbott doesn't care. Paxton doesn't give a shit as he counts his bribe money.

And strangely enough, republicans want to do away with the EPA. Weird.

[–] drunkpostdisaster 16 points 4 months ago

It's what they voted for.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago

I wish some good old boys would force musk and his lackeys to drink and swim in that water, it's the right thing to do and rase them much higher in my eyes

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Can we revoke his government contracts now?

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›