this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
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submitted 4 months ago by Godric to c/politicalmemes
 
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[–] Snailpope 79 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (13 children)

My running theory is he is a moderate republican who, after January 6th, realized Trump is going to kill democracy. He donated shortly after, but with the recent uncertainty decided solve the problem with his own hands. Unfortunately, he made a rookie mistake and held his breath instead of breathing out before taking the shot, didn't properly sight in his scope, and / or just choked.

I'm not in anyway supporting any form of violence let alone an assassination attempt on a former president. This is not the way to conduct democracy, there are much better ways to address the current issues. I am merely trying to point out why he was so close but still missed his target as if it were a paper target not a living being who, regardless of transgressions, doesn't deserve to have their life taken from them.

Criticism is welcome and appreciated

Edit: Criticism is welcome and appreciated

[–] GladiusB 32 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I'm of the opinion he is just a Republican and just like every other Republican he is mentally ill and too proud to admit to it. They have guns and fantasize about violence. He may have been ostracized and this was his "I'll show them" moment.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That's unfair to mentally ill people.

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[–] Snailpope 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I understand the want to paint things in black and white, especially in these kind of extreme circumstances. However, the "two party" system has an insane variety of greys. I'd love to be able to say "Republican = Bad" "Democrats = good" but that's not how the world works. There are as many 'good' Republicans as 'bad' Democrats. You're good if you work for the people your bad if you don't. I generally disagree with blanket statements but everyones opion matters

[–] pyre 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

wait... i agree that being a democrat doesn't make you good at all, in fact if you identify with the party you're more likely to be bad. but if you're a republican you're absolutely, one hundred percent bad. what the fuck kind of redeeming qualities does the republican party even pretend to have anymore? it's an openly fascist party.

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[–] GladiusB 6 points 4 months ago (6 children)

I'm not painting him other than Republican with a mental illness. It fits the mold for many other shooters. It is "bad" as you put it, if they keep shooting people.

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[–] Eatspancakes84 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If he’s a gun nut, he may have just believed that he was using his 2A rights to remove a tyrant as the founding fathers intended. This assassination attempt very clearly shows why gun rights are antithetical to democracy.

[–] Soggy 8 points 4 months ago

Antithetical? If anything the last few years have shown that we cannot rely on precedent and good-faith to sustain a democracy.

[–] count_dongulus 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Everyone is assuming it was political, but imo he's just a run of the mill loner incel mass shooter suicide by gun guy. Picked the rally cause it was the most impactful thing nearby.

[–] Moneo 11 points 4 months ago

Hard agree. Incel shooter looking to go out in a blaze of glory. I'm guessing there will be copycats.

[–] Wogi 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Maybe he really liked catcher in the rye.

Or Jodie Foster.

Maybe he thought Trump should have offered him a job. Maybe he's a fascist and thinks Trump isn't quite fascist enough. Maybe he was just a disillusioned anarchist.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Just a quick question on the topic of not wishing him dead. This is more a curiosity on my end in context of the legal death penalty.

Are you firmly against the idea of taking a life even if they are abhorrent. Or is the issue with the lawlessness of a public assassination?

Would it make a difference if someone gets a legal death penalty but then get murdered illegally.

Does it make it justice if the assassin was on paper technically legal and in line of that, what makes the death penalty objectively just?

Does “your” moral reasoning of murder always come down to individual cases and subjective gut feelings.

You dont have to answer all or any of these, someone else may give their opinion. But a philosophical one not a political one if possible.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 months ago (6 children)

The simple philosophical answer for me is: if you murder someone because of a past deed, or threats of a future deed, you're denying human capacity to change. I personally feel, given the right circumstances, everyone has capacity to change, learn, grow, evolve. Pretty much every bad deed can be put down to humans being opportunistic, selfish, manipulative or backed into a corner. I imagine things would be very different if their needs were met and they were well educated. Most countries (at least in Europe) at least attempt to use the prison system for rehabilitation rather than expensive punitive measures and/or slavery.

Political answer: Trump should be in jail for many, many crimes, not dead.

[–] something_random_tho 18 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

And when the Justice system does nothing, then what? Let him round up the immigrants into camps and give trans people the death penalty? Let him install himself as a dictator and refuse to leave power? Let him kill a million in a pandemic, destroy the planet, and gut the education system robbing millions of their future?

Because he "might" change? Tell that to trans people.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 4 months ago

I mean that's the problem. I'm saying he should already be deep in jail. I'm not saying that because the justice system is failing/corrupt that everyone should just let it slide.

You've gone down the "if we can go back in time, do we kill baby Hitler" route, which I wasn't really exploring.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

I don't think that there is a line we can draw, short of saying "no killing whatsoever," that can't be abused. If we say, "No killing unless they're judged guilty," then we leave it up to fallible lawmakers to make just laws, and fallible police and prosecutors to be honest and decent, and fallible jurors to try and turn this into a decision.

Or let's say we make the rule, "Only fascists can be murdered." But who decides if someone is a fascist? Is it someone who believes the ideology, or do they need power or authority to act on it as well?

Basically I don't think there is a system of rules that could be implemented that would not kill innocent people as a byproduct, unless the rule is just "no killing."

[–] Snailpope 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

My personal opinion used to be "those who are beyond change, those who are so cruel, vindictive, undeniably atrocious, evil, maniacal ect. should be put to death, removed from the world they clearly shouldn't be in". After many long discussions with my closest friend I have come to believe that death is too light a punishment. Those who truly deserve the harshest judgment should live a long life, in complete isolation, devoid of all pleasure, entertainment, contact, ect. Take away all that humans crave besides basic human needs, let them truly suffer for their crimes.

Obviously, every individual instance of any crime should be dealt with by a fair and balanced jury, judge, defense, and prosecution, with as much fact and evidence as can be attained without prejudice or predetermined judgment based on personal biases.

I'm obviously long winded but am super happy with the engagement on my comment. I don't like arguing but I love hearing others opinions! Thank you all!

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[–] BaldManGoomba 10 points 4 months ago

There is reports he was rushed as police were peeking up on the roof but were scared away. That or the person who was interviewed lied

[–] lennybird 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I've heard reports stating he had no scope. This dude had no military training or anything of the like and I suspect in a moment like that your adrenaline is going through the roof. Odds are quite high he was shaking like crazy. Odds are high he knew he was going to die in seconds.

Where he stands politically I don't know, but this could be case of "suicide by cop" combined with a, "well I might as well..."

To just provide a counter-narrative, his father is a Libertarian; his mother is a Democrat according to a local canvasser. It's possible when going to the DMV he was pressured by one of his parents to pick a registration at 16 and that of course stuck with his record. Not exactly a long political history between 16 and 20. Nevertheless we shall see. His interest with Demolition Ranch and the discord channel may reveal some insights. Maybe the Epstein files sent him over the edge or something.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

You have to register your political affiliation when getting a driving license?

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[–] Chocrates 34 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

I haven't kept up, this dude is. Republican?

Edit: I read the wiki. TL;DR he is 20 and registered as a Republican when he turned 18. He donated a small sum to a progressive PAC as well.

So kinda a Republican but information so far doesn't really point at him having deep rooted conservative ideals. Again this is just summarizing the wiki so new info probably will make this out of date.

[–] [email protected] 55 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Tbf the current Republican Party doesn't have "deep rooted conservative ideals" either.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 months ago

They do if you consider fascism the logical end point of conservatism.

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[–] David_Eight 13 points 4 months ago (3 children)

From what I understand he wasn't the one who made the donation, it was some 69 year old guy with the same name. This hasn't been fully confirmed yet though.

[–] Yawweee877h444 4 points 4 months ago

This is an important data point if true, would like to see a source if you have one.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Please add your sources for this. I can only find people saying the same thing but all without sources. Some claim it's everywhere on the socials.. Which does not qualify as more than gossip for now.

[–] David_Eight 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It looks like I was incorrect.

This is the record for the donation that the news reported. On the document it states the city of the donor as being "Pittsburgh" and there is another person named Thomas Crooks that lives in Pittsburgh. But the zip code is to "Bethel Park" the town the shooter was from. The street address on the document doesn't seem to matches any street address in Pittsburgh but there is one in Bethel Park according to Google maps.

So I think it probably was the shooter that made the donation.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago

Thanks for coming back to us with this, the clarification regarding the confusion as well is much appreciated.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago

What is your source for this?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Yeah I imagine there is going to be a lot of fierce demands from people across the political spectrum to reveal who he voted for in the 2022 midterms

[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't matter, he is a registered Republican.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Eh as much as I want to agree with you that doesn’t mean much if he did it just to vote against Trump in the primaries or something. The donation to act Blue is going to be all the right cares about unless it is crystal clear he was voting Republican, and unfortunately the right messages better than the left right now and any attempt at nuance will be drowned out by “he donated to liberal groups.” People leaning or more “moderate” will go with the right’s narrative most likely unless he truly was a Republican.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Even if the shooter had voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020 the Repiblicans would spin it as him being a Democrat who just hadn't changed parties because they lie about everything.

The shooter was too young for any voting history to matter anyway. He was a registered Republican and that is the only thing that matters until there is documented evidence that the registration was for any reason other than choosing to be a Republican.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago

Time to retire this one. Peaked.

[–] CaptainKickass 7 points 4 months ago

Best one so far

Bravo 👏

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