this post was submitted on 21 Jun 2024

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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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Thoughts on terrorism (lemmy.world)

submitted 5 months ago by Iheartcheese to c/tenforward

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[–] Snowclone 76 points 5 months ago (6 children)

Sisko didn't have the privilege of being a peace time captain. He had to be at the center of a war between galaxies with everything at stake. He didn't have a choice how agents he may have protected acted. he didn't command, direct, or approve of their methods. He only benifited, and protected, with disgust and grief for the values he once held dear. But all he had then was the list of all those lost, and the precise knowledge that losing the war, ment total destruction to everything and everyone he cared about. It would be future generations that would judge him, no one who marched through the mud along side him would.

[–] half_built_pyramids 43 points 5 months ago (1 children)

He literally used quark's nephew as extortion leverage in the first episode.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 5 months ago (4 children)

To be fair, that's probably expected in Ferengi custom

[–] [email protected] 33 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

He even cited an ancient Ferengi custom: plea-bargaining.

(Also an ancient human custom, shh!)

[–] afraid_of_zombies 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

That's fine. I am reminded of an old Vulcan expression: Only Nixon can go to China

[–] ummthatguy 19 points 5 months ago

[–] SkyezOpen 17 points 5 months ago

More rude not to, honestly.

[–] Snowclone 8 points 5 months ago

Yeah that's just good business.

[–] FlyingSquid 30 points 5 months ago (1 children)

a war between galaxies

Quadrants of the same galaxy.

Just saying.

[–] Snowclone 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yeah I wasn't sure if that the best terminology.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Intragalactic war?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago (1 children)

He didn't command, direct, or approve of any of their methods. He only benefited, and protected, with disgust and grief for the values he once held dear.

So… I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all… I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again, I would. Garak was right about one thing, a guilty conscience is a small price to pay for the safety of the Alpha Quadrant. So I will learn to live with it. Because I can live with it. I can live with it… Computer, erase that entire personal log.

Truly disgusted and grief stricken.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago

Well, he does imply he has a guilty conscience; he's just also saying he can live with it.

[–] ummthatguy 21 points 5 months ago

Well put. There were still those that judged his choices/actions, but then, those detractors likely would have made radically different and likely detrimental decisions in the name of peace.

[–] samus12345 15 points 5 months ago

"It's easy to be a saint in paradise."

[–] ameancow -2 points 5 months ago (3 children)

no one who marched through the mud along side him would.

You had me until this line.

Ain't no mud in space. Ain't no mud ever on starfleet uniforms.

I bet if anyone even wanted to SEE mud in the Star Trek universe they would need a team of engineers to craft some in a replicator.

[–] Iheartcheese 9 points 5 months ago

Laforge and that romulan were covered in mud after they got trapped on that planet

[–] Dud 3 points 5 months ago

What about Henry Mudd?

[–] Melvin_Ferd 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Where does the poop go

[–] ameancow 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Beamed directly out of the butt and into a small shuttle that follows behind a starfleet ship.

Once the shuttle fills up to the point that it's almost bulging with pressure from all the feces, they park it on some forgotten moon and wait for alien explorers to discover it and open it up to see what's inside.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

This is why voyager had so many shuttles. Once they started beaming the poop into space instead of shuttles they could use their entire stock of poop shuttles as normal shuttles. Bit of an extravagance for the delta quadrant, really

[–] I_Fart_Glitter 43 points 5 months ago (4 children)

[–] ummthatguy 40 points 5 months ago (1 children)

A CHALLENGER APPROACHES!

[–] Jerkface 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Freedom. Fighter.

[–] ummthatguy 15 points 5 months ago

[–] Agent641 22 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

I require all officers to attend mandatory terrorism classes.

(I've never watched star trek and Im basing my assumption of this ladys' attitude towards terrorism among her ranking officers off the animosity this community has towards her. And she looks like a "keep your enemies closer" type of person)

[–] I_Fart_Glitter 10 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Half of Janeway's (the lady above) crew on Voyager were members of the Maquis before they joined her. The Maquis were freedom fighters in the resistance against the Cardassian occupation/colonization in the demilitarized zone. The Cardassians (brutal, planet-hungry, militaristic race) considered them terrorists, the Federation considered them dangerous traitors. Voyager was on a mission to catch the group of Maquis under Chakotay's command on the Valjean (named for the Les Miserables character imprisoned for a just crime) when both ships got tossed 75 years journey from home. The two captains decided to merge their crews and Chakotay became Janeway's first officer after Chakotay sacrificed his ship to save members of both crews.

People have (light hearted) animosity toward Janeway mainly because she had to make a hard decision when two crew members got merged into one in a transporter accident. The resulting person was a new being who wanted to live, but keeping him alive would mean sacrificing the two original people. She also fucked around with the timeline so much that one of the time cops went insane trying to fix the issues she was continuously creating. And she's a bit cranky when she doesn't get any coffee.

[–] marcos 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The Maquis were freedom fighters

The Maquis were outright terrorists, that rushed to attack civilians of the wrong ethnicity any time they could, and didn't care how many of the civilians of the right ethnicity were killed on the process either. That's put very clearly since the first time they appeared on TNG.

And yeah, they were terrorists fighting against occupation and genocide of their kind. Still terrorists.

[–] I_Fart_Glitter 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Were the Cardassians terrorists too, or do they get a pass since their actions were Official Military Operations (TM)? It was certainly a hotly debated topic among Federation members. You can call it black and white if you want to, there were Star Fleet officers that did. There were also respected, high ranking officers, deep into their careers that joined their cause, including Chakotay. Star Trek is nothing if not nuanced.

[–] marcos 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

When a government does that, it's not called "terrorism" anymore, and instead starts to get names like "crimes against Humanity".

Anyway, everything is very clear on whether or not the Maquis were terrorists. All the nuance is about how to react to that.

[–] I_Fart_Glitter 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Yes, if you're looking at it from a single perspective, you can be very clear on what they were or weren't. You seem to be pretty invested in labeling them according to your own.

[–] marcos 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If you are focusing on the name, yes, it changes because when the government does it, it becomes a much worse crime.

But I do think this is focusing on the wrong thing. There is a huge amount of discussion on those shows about terrorism coming from an oppressed group, full of nuances and different values. All of what becomes meaningless if you go... denying (?) the terrorism that is completely clear.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

I agree with both of you. They were terrorists by the definition we typically use. However, that word was created by the ruling class to easily turn people against a perceived threat. They usually use the same tools as the state. Why don't states get called terrorists when using fear and force for political gain? The word terrorism is not useful. It is another tool of the ruling class to control things.

I can see the argument of using the word and saying that it can be good. That what DS9 did. I would prefer the word to stop being used. I think it's best at the moment to use the word, say it can be good, and then also say why the word is a tool of control and should be abandoned.

[–] mojofrododojo 1 points 5 months ago

without the invasion, without the cardassian occupation, there would be no maquis.

[–] AEsheron 2 points 5 months ago

To be fair, the timeline fuckery all only started because that tome cop tried to prevent it. He's the reason she's a temporal disaster to begin with.

[–] SkyezOpen 6 points 5 months ago

It's been a while since I've watched voy, but their whole deal was being stranded 75 years travel away from home and attempting to keep their shit together while trying to get home with little to no help. Some decisions had to be made.

I think most of the animosity is facetious. She's an awesome captain.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 5 months ago

She wasn’t a terrorist, she was just a terror.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Poison a planet on Monday because all the reports were in on time. Friday there was a pizza party in ops because we had gone 5 days without a holosuite malfunction. Then on Saturday we assassinated a Romulan Senator as a treat for Garak's birthday.

[–] ummthatguy 22 points 5 months ago (1 children)

"I think it's time for me to become the villain."

(Quote/gif from 2 different episodes, but couldn't find one of the quote and this works better, I think.)

[–] [email protected] 10 points 5 months ago (1 children)

This gif is super captivating

[–] ummthatguy 12 points 5 months ago

s4e9 "Our Man Bashir". A great "distraction from the overall plot" type episode that gives focus to Dr. Bashir and Garak. Plus about as much "fraternization" as they could sneak by Berman.

[–] ummthatguy 30 points 5 months ago

Some tend to take advantage of the offer.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 5 months ago

alt-text

A comparison between two political figures, Elizabeth and Bernie, on whether cats can have salami. On the left, the image shows a smiling woman (Warren) with the caption "cats should only eat cat food". On the right, the image shows an older man (Sanders) with the caption "cats can have a little salami". The image is presented in a mock election-style format, with the question "Elizabeth or Bernie?" at the top, suggesting that voters should compare the two candidates on this issue.

[–] Bye 15 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Ro Laren though

[–] chiliedogg 19 points 5 months ago

Well, he didn't speak to her again for like 30 years...

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

[–] LEDZeppelin 7 points 5 months ago

“OMG! Both sides are the same”