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Fucking good - too often do democrats fail to force a vote they know will not pass. It's extremely useful to get politicians on the record for future elections.
Not fucking good, the bill is hot garbage and the fact that so many Senate Democrats and Biden support it is an embarrassment.
It's a bill criminalizing a non-problem that creates a worse issue than what it "solves". We don't need or benefit from a more militaristic boarder and xenophobic/racist rhetoric about people crossing.
This garbage kills people and promotes human trafficking. The bill Democrats should be supporting is loosening the boarder and opening pathways to citizenship. We don't need more detention centers to separate children from their families.
This bill is the same as if the Democrats put up an anti abortion bill just to show that the Republicans don't care about stopping abortions. Democrats implementing Republican's fascist policies is not what we need. Not even as a "gotcha".
Seriously, nothing is gained by this.
Yep exactly. And what happens if Republicans win Congress later, put up the same bill and democrats vote against it? Now suddenly they're the ones accused of playing games instead of 'trying to solve the border issue'.
There's also so many issues that are way more popular that the Democrats are flubbing on by focusing on the fucking border of all things.
Abortion, climate change, cost of living, housing costs, medical costs, ect. It's a limitless field of popular problems that need fixing and instead of focusing on any of them, the hill they are dying on is funding and arming ICE? In the wake of calls for police reform, they want to empower some of the worst most fascist cops in the US?
These old dog Democrats are the dumbest most of of touch politicians out there.
You'll have to excuse my ignorance here but my understanding was that Democrats could force something through the senate with the VP as the deciding vote? Has something changed in the meantime or am I recalling incorrectly?
I believe they need a supermajority of 60 to force a vote through the House. The VP can vote only as a tie-breaker in the Senate.
This is correct. The 60 vote threshold is to break a filibuster. Filibusters having become steadily more common since they changed the procedures for them that removed the requirement for a filibustering Senator to actually stand up and talk the whole time, which put a functional, biological cap on the potential duration of a filibuster. That cap no longer exists. This is sometimes called a "no-talk filibuster".
When the fuck did that happen? That’s part of the point of a filibuster… does dude man (or dudette woman) have the fucking stones to see it through? Do they have the conviction of purpose in opposition to the motion to do what it takes to prevent it?
Looks like 1975.
Seems it was an inadvertent result from a rule designed to allow the Senate to pursue other business during a filibuster, so it wouldn't hold up all Senate business.
Here's a couple links, and there's also a long wikipedia article on it.
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/filibustering-in-the-modern-senate https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/filibuster-explained
Wow… so my entire life. Appreciate the info.
Perfect. Thank you!
We have a bill that passed the house that will save the government 1 billion and help fix our drug middleman issues (PBMs). The Senate won't put it on the floor
This is the equivalent to Russian roulette....
If just a single Dem like Manchin votes for it with Republicans, it'll pass.
Or if all the Dems voted for it along with the VP or a single Republican, it'll pass.
Like, the most likely outcome if a vote comes, it'll pass. And even if it doesn't, for some reason this is something Biden wants to do an executive order on.
Despite most Dem voters (and virtually all the demographics Biden is doing poorly with) don't want this.
There is literally zero positives to this.
If they want something performative to show republicans won't help. Pick something that would actually help if it does pass.
If just a single Dem like Manchin votes for it with Republicans, it'll pass.
Not how this works.
There has to be a vote to allow debate to start on the bill. This is not passage, just putting the bill in front of the entire chamber for consideration.
This requires 60 votes; the vote in February failed 50-49.
If it somehow made it to debate this time, there would still have to be a second vote on passage. It's not at all unusual for senators to vote for advancing to debate and then vote down the actual bill for any number of reasons.
So, no. The most likely outcome is not the bill passing; by far the most likely outcome is the bill dying on the vine. Senate Democrats aren't randomly gambling here.
I don't understand it either. Do Dems really think this is what their base wants? I don't personally know any Democrat who thinks this law is a good idea. Immigration is more of a hot topic for Republicans. Why do we keep trying to get republican votes when there are still plenty of Dem votes to win?
Why do we keep trying to get republican votes when there are still plenty of Dem votes to win?
Because we're using donations to determine who gets leadership positions for a long time now.
Bundle the most donations and you get to run campaigns and the DNC.
So the people in charge are the ones that rub elbows with the rich and powerful, there's no outreach to regular voters. And for the rich and powerful, even the ones that vote D are conservative. Dont forget trump gave so much money to Dems Bill and Hillary felt obligated to attend his wedding despite saying they hated him at the time.
Just let that sink in. A former president and his spouse who was still active in politics took time out of their lives to attend trump's wedding. Those are the people Biden is trying to keep happy with this.
Campaigns aren't focused on getting votes, they're focused on getting money then leaning on "vote blue no matter who" and fear mongering to get votes.
And at that point, why do we need to raise billions of dollars?
It's just moving money around in circles for no other reason than people get to keep a little slice every time it goes by.
And the longer people "just vote blue no matter who" nothing will fundamentally change.
You can say we can't afford to stop now.
But trumps been the candidate 3 elections in a row, even when it stops being him, the next will be just as bad.
At some point shit has to change. The least painful way for that to happen is everyone doing it at once.
They need a super majority to defeat the inevitable filibuster.
But you should know this, given how unbelievably outspoken you are all over Lemmy on how Biden/Dems are bad.
Yeah, I said the other day there's a chance this works out like when McConnell had to filibuster his own bill he brought to a vote.
At the time everyone couldn't stop laughing about how big of a joke it made the Republican party...
I'm not looking forward to being told Schumer is a genius when he does it, but it would be better than Dems letting this pass because they genuinely want it to.
Because that's what their donors told them to want.