this post was submitted on 13 May 2024
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[–] BombOmOm 36 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

China is becoming an increasingly unreliable trade partner. Preventing them from taking over more of America's economy is prudent.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This is very much a mixed bag of news - while it sucks to force ridiculously high tariffs on EV imports the Chinese EV market is currently unsustainably subsidized by the government and domestic companies wouldn't be able to compete. If we want to grow our domestic EV automakers we can't let them be forced to sell vehicle at a perpetual loss.

This is made even more complicated by the fact that EV manufacturing is already being heavily domestically subsidized by PE money - I believe one of the manufacturing startups is currently losing 350k on every car they sell.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

I suppose that there are also some externality reasons to favor EVs over ICE vehicles, though because carbon dioxide emissions are a negative externality, for it to produce an economically-efficient outcome, you'd want to internalize that with something like a carbon tax on ICE vehicles rather than a subsidy on EVs.

I think that a subsidy probably only makes much sense from a national security standpoint, if one is worried about China controlling vehicle production.

In World War II, the US was able to leverage vehicle production capacity, and it was a significant factor affecting the war, though I don't know how likely it is that that would be an issue today.

Like, if we get into a WW2-style long slugging match where what matters is how many people you can put on assembly lines, I suspect that China is going to have a significant advantage anyway, due to population. Like, we don't want to get into that kind of situation in the first place.

[–] nucleative 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

This is dumb. Americans are being ripped off by car prices and manufacturers who aren't investing in this cheaper tech.

The Chinese cars are cheap because they're going back to basics. Compared to any US DOT approved vehicle, they're slow, they're light, they don't have any bells and whistles. Four wheels, a motor, some simple electronics, and a battery.

Ultimately, that's all you need to get from one place to the next if you don't need highway speeds or crash ratings..

Will high tariffs cause local manufacturers to develop their own version of cheap electric vehicles? Doubtful.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

My thought as well, the video Tom Scott did on the mountain town that has bespoke electric vehicles (and strict usage on them for needed business) comes to mind (R2oD1ZHNMFE). I don't know how much is law and how much is companies not caring to cater to that market (even with designs that they sell in Europe), but Kei-like vehicles can still be affordable without being fully unsafe (but the issue of safety is more about the market making larger-and-larger trucks and SUVs, and lack of viable car alternatives paired with high speed limits).

Higher cost really is not a fix. Other concerns like privacy seem like policy could mesh well with low-end (no internet connection, just-a-radio, common off-the-shelf parts, standards+no DRM etc). It would be nice for the option to exist in this space that US car companies are not trying to fill anyway.

@Fiivemacs

[–] nucleative 1 points 7 months ago

I'm sure a lot of the problems are regulation related. For example I don't think you can drive golf carts on most city streets.

Some preplanned communities have separate road systems for smaller vehicles. But if it's not baked in from the start, it's probably tough to add later.

Unfortunately, I think the auto lobby is largely responsible for much of this, and will fight hard to keep it this way.

[–] Tylerdurdon 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Let's hope they don't retaliate with batteries

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

I think that having a battery supply chain that China doesn't control is a major goal, so that probably isn't going to provide much leverage.

Though, personally, I wouldn't want lithium battery prices to spike until that gets sorted out.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Free market at work.

[–] givesomefucks 4 points 7 months ago

America is having record fossil fuel production...

It's one of the few things keeping "the economy" afloat on paper.

If Biden let Americans buy affordable Chinese EVs, that hurts the American GDP numbers in a couple ways.

Neoliberals care about GDP more than CEOs care about stock price.

[–] ExfilBravo 4 points 7 months ago

"We don't have any competition for these Chinese EV's so our plan is to price the American public out of buying one even though we don't have any cheap alternative EVs in America. We are so fucked here. If we don't vote Biden we get straight up fascism if we vote for Biden we get a continued oligarchy. Great choices guys!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

It's not as if the US market is being closed with Nios and Byds.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Free market until they lose, then its a walled market. Double standards a the way. But what's really happening is, Biden just took the money from the US car manufacturers.