Charity should be freely given. If you don't want to, then don't. You are not obligated to take care of people you are only tangentially related to.
this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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My mum get angry with me and my dad because we refuse to chip in.
Her idea is, ... something about tie by blood ... sorry bad English, dunno how to describe.
Something that meaning you are relative, then you have to sacrifice ourself for another.
From her perspective, we are just selfish.
But why, i need my saving for my own future, marry, have some kid, loss job, another covid ...
From a "ties of blood" perspective, to give a perspective your mom might understand:
He might be tied by blood, but he is bringing dishonor and being a burden upon the entire family and lineage. He disgracea the rest of the family and all his elders and ancestors with his failure and irresponsible spending. He should be forced to work and spend less, helped by his elders, and shamed if he refuses to do so.
Note: this isn't something I'd recommend to anyone else, but if it helps.
Then your mother should get a job and pay for him, if it is so important to her.
That difference in ideology make family relationship go bad.
Why is he not financially stable?
Does he not have a job? Is he blowing his paycheck on gambling? Hookers? Drugs? (Etc?).
Would throwing cash at him even help?
Why is he not financially stable?
Because his family is actively working to enshroud him in a false reality where not earning enough results in financial stability.
He has never had the emotional retraining necessary to connect his plans with the dopamine to fulfill them.
Unfortunately for people ruled by their swollen empathy, that emotional training is painful to undergo.
Basically he hasn’t been allowed to experience failure, so his brain hasn’t fully developed.
This happened to me earlier in my life. Then the person enabling me died, and within six months I was homeless, but within six months after that I was transformed and financially functional and have been ever since. No experience other than the natural consequences could have taught me, and there was someone actively preventing me from feeling them.
You and your father should be angry with her, because she is continually poisoning your uncle’s character.
She’s like someone providing a shot of heroin “because they care”.
Trust your gut. If it makes you feel stronger to think of giving him money go for it. If it makes you feel weaker, don’t do it.
Trust your feelings. The mental justifications are secondary. You’re young so your feelings aren’t developed by experience very much, but you’ve been in the world long enough to have all the information you need to know whether it’s the right move.
And that will be reflected in a feeling, in your body, that indicates to you whether it’s the right move or not.
It’s really important to learn how to make decisions based on this kind of thing. If you aren’t aware of your feelings they’ll still be there, subconsciously, un-felt but exerting force on your thoughts, and your mind will invisibly adjust the weights in your reasoning to match whatever the knot of unconscious feelings is driving you toward.
Unfold the knot by learning to identify and merely experience your feelings without mental verbalizing. Many decisions can be made through the processing of this vector field of feelings.
And being cut off from that can lead you to some really bad decisions. If you don’t know how to read your gut, practice by spending a minute or two here and there just doing nothing but sitting there still and scanning your body to note how it feels.
Yes I did chip in few time before. When I do, I feel like I am obligated to do so. I am submissive. They are god asking for sacrifice.
Then they ask more.
I refuse, my dad already told me to not chip in long ago. But when I actually stop, I feel I had broken the chain that bind me. It like, something you have to do but you don't want to. A binding, cause by ... culture propaganda (?!).
I am drifting from collectivism to individualism.
Now I feel my mom is a victim. She is being leeching sooo long, and still willing to be leeching.
Each person is a mandala, with living information patterned in the sphere of karma around them.
When you encounter another person, your mandala touches theirs and the patterns intermingle. They connect and form meta patterns, and these seep from the edge inward, reconfiguring the deeper layers from the outside in.
When you clarify your karma, and define your boundaries, it will help your mother, and everyone else around you, in ways that you do not need to manage actively. Focus on your own job. Do correct things and it will expand beyond your attention. But to create better patterns you must focus on the moment and treat each little detail as important. The big picture will follow naturally from the details.
Just each moment, hold a clean boundary.
Her situation will absorb, adapt to, and internalize the patterns you establish for yourself.
As a game, good boundaries are complementary. They interface best with, and incentivize the creation of, good boundaries in other people. When the boundaries are clean, relationships are easier and there is more time and energy available for producing goodness together.
The rearrangement of a mandala looks like chaos, and there will most likely be pain and shouting. The firmer you are, the less of the drama there will be in the long run.
Short answer, no, you're not married to him.
Even when it would have been your brother, then still no, legally. Morally, maybe, when you know it will help him recover, not stay in trouble longer. (So I can understand your mother, a tad)
I'd try to talk to your parents about it, how can you help your uncle without dumping cash in a bottemless pit, as doing so did prove not to solve the issue. (Else your mother wouldn't have to bail him out on a yearly base)
When you all see no way out, you could try to at least help his kids, support them with stuff they need, help them develop, eat, repair or replace goods, but no cash. Big chance cash would end up at your uncle anyway.
It's tough, but you're only obliged to help your partner when married and your kids when under age, or do the best you can for direct family (parents, brother/sister or your own kids when legally independant), but within reasonable limits.
Help primarily your mother in this situation, she is your father's (primairy) and your (secondary) responsability, your uncle isn't.
I'm guessing here but I think you are asking this question in a cultural space that is pretty far removed from your own.
From a super individualistic Western perspective everyone seems to be saying fuck no, cut off the rot, look after yourself.
In many other cultures, the family unit remains extremely strong throughout life and the whole is far greater than the sum of its parts.
I watched some Vietnamese school friends of mine go from fresh off the boat with nothing, to owning half of the businesses in their town as well as MASSIVE generational wealth that will never go away.
They spread like a beautiful, productive fungus across their suburb by working together. First they all lived in one house, some worked, some started businesses. ALL of the money coming in paid off that house quickly, then they had two houses. Repeat the same again. Now they have 3 houses, all paid for. Now some money goes in to private schools for all the kids, university for all the kids. Now the kids are culturally obligated to contribute to the scheme with their high paying jobs as doctors and pharmacists.
The Vietnamese bakery in the small set of local shops has now bought out the butcher and the video store, the video store has become a pharmacy owned by the first two graduated children, then they bought the grocery store and the nail salon. Then they bought more profitable businesses in town: drive-through liquor stores and tobacconists.
We're already talking millions of dollars per year of income. 3 houses has become 13 houses. Each Vietnamese family unit now has a house of their own and they are all paid for. The rest are rental income to add to the stack. They financially support their local temple, and they pay to bring more and more family members over who rapidly become productive members of the scheme.
At this point, they are unstoppable and it's all because they were prepared to work together and endure that short term pain of overcrowded shared dwellings and give 100% of their income to the cause. Now they will all live comfortable lives together and have a myriad of passive income streams. The old people are taken care of, those who fall on hard times are taken care of.
I guess what I am saying is, on the surface it seems extremely unfair - but it sounds like you are part of a cultural support system that would absolutely catch you if you fall.
Further still, you are not being charged any rent or living expenses. Being able to save 50% of your income is not normal for 99% of people so you are already feeling the benefit of that safety net.
If you don't feel like it's for you and you want to get out of it I say that's fine, you're not bound to anyone. But if that is how you feel then you should immediately move out and truly go it alone.
I'd just warn you that many Westerners see the wisdom in the system you seem to have and wish that their own family unit could be so strong and cohesive. We really can accomplish a lot more together than we can as individuals.
Seem interesting. I would think about this in my meditation
This sounds like a complicated situation. I am sorry you have to deal with this.
Is there an alternative where you could help your nieces/nephews with things to improve their situation without giving money to Uncle Moneypit?
Dealing with family money things is not fun.
They are (2 dudes) in high school now.
They will in college/university soon, in next few year.
I am not intent to cover any living cost or tuition fee for those dudes. I have my own brothers, that is tooo enough.
Currently I have no idea how to help without involve a lot of money.
I even don't think their problem is money.
In my simulation in my head, they will be fine without all my mum salary too.
They just need to downgrade their living standard a bit.
Live truely like you are poor. Spend less on useless thing. Don't go vacation ... (they really did)
Asking for tuition fee reduce policy from government. Quit afterschool English class. Don't use air conditioner, use fan instead. ...
If I were in this position, I'd refuse to give any money to the uncle, but my cousins would have the most awesome birthday presents and lots of fun trips with me to help them deal with having a deadbeat dad.
Also, while it's clear you're not in the US, so your laws may differ, there are trust funds you can set up for the kids that the uncle can't touch - and if they're young, it could be a lot of money for them when it matures at a minimal cost to you. Grandparents who want to support their grandchildren often do this when the parents can't be trusted with money due to addiction or criminal behavior. Another option to support the kids would be to take out a life insurance policy on the uncle in the kids name - there are a couple of variations that allow the kids to borrow against the value of the policy before he dies once they come of age.
You are not obligated, no, it is entirely up to you. Of course there will be consequences of not giving money, just as their will be consequences of giving money. You have to weigh one against the other to determine which will have the outcome you want most. Less cost but angry mother, or happy mother but higher cost. Helping uncle's family but stressing your own finances, vs not helping your uncle's family but not stressing your own finances.
I think there are also some other factors you could consider. Is your uncle's financial situation something that he got himself into and could have avoided or could get himself out of by making better decisions, or is it an unfortunate situation outside of his control that he is struggling with through no fault of his own? Is there a way you can help him become more financially stable in the future so he no longer needs help, or would it be an endless cycle that ultimately wouldn't do either party any good and would just allow the problem to persist indefinitely? Does your uncle need an intervention of sorts, or does he just need enough support to get back on his feet? Are there financial institutions or other forms of official aid that can offer him support and options so that you don't need to step in? Can you possibly help him find a higher income job so he can support himself, instead of just offering money? If your uncle is just bad with money, can he be taught how to better save? Could he benefit from a financial advisor? Etc, etc.
This kind of question is what AmITheAsshole is for. So far our Lemmyverse AITA is all bot-mirrored content from Reddit. You ought to cross-post this question over there.
Huh what ?
I have solution for you, depending on your cousin's age, make sure he's mature and you give money to him directly.
Skip over the black whole and help the ones that really (probably) could use a hand
see reddit.com/r/amitheasshole for examples
I'd say no. You are not your mother's brother's keeper. Now, if you want ease your your mind, or try to repair the damaged relationship. Or to give this guy a chance to improve his situation, you could offer to pay off the loan as a one time only, never again, doesn't matter if they become homeless or will starve to death thing. But don't give them money to pay it off, you go with them to the loan place and pay it off directly. Then you can say you gave them a chance to turn things around, it's up to them at that point what they do. We all make mistakes, and sometimes need a hand to get out from under a bad situation. But if we keep putting ourselves into the fire, at some point we deserve the burns.
That one time loan is about my saving in 5 years. Yeah, I can pay once, but only once then I have nothing left.
I am afaid he mess up again, then our problem back from begining.
About the "keeper" thing, I feel that my uncle are parasite my mother. I want her to get out, and forget all the stress about money. But i cannot save her from him.
Yes, then back to my original thought, No. You are not obligated in anyway for the financial support of anyone besides yourself. This may cause anger in others, like your mother for example. But at the end of the day, being angry is her problem, not yours. The choice is simple when broken down to it's most basic levels. You help, throwing away money that has next to zero chance of ever coming back to you or really fixing the issues. And, your mother won't be angry with you. Or you don't, keeping your money and angering your mother. Do you care more about the money, or your mom being angry is the question. In all honesty, depending on your age, might be easier to just move out and get your own place if you have good enough financials to do so, and are of legal age. I wish you luck, I had to tell my drug addict sister no to giving her money I knew she would spend on more drugs. She hasn't spoke to me since, and that was nearly 25 years ago.
I don't even know if there is a country where you are obligated to financially support a parent or even a brother under any circumstance.
If you support a parent or a direct sibling, it is only because you want to do it and, as others have said, should be done only if it's financially possible for you without sacrificing your wellbeing, decent living condition and future.
My dad left my mom when I was around 6 years old (I'm in my early 30 now), that person is just related with me by "blood" but he never supported me or my mom financially or in any other way. If he came to me now asking for any type of help, I would refuse without question. On the other hand, I owe everything I am to my mother, she sacrificed everything to give me the best path she could by herself. She is now close to retirement and in my country there is no way to live off savings or pension due to very hi inflation, so I will support her from that point forward in every way I can, but this is only because I feel that doing so is a way to be grateful of her taking care of me on her own and I want to give her back now that I'm able to.
Perhaps what i neeed is a brainwash method, not money.
I don't thing money can solve the problem.
I mean, a way to persuade them to get themselves out of the situation.
The “brainwash” that your uncle requires is unfortunately quite unpleasant, and consists of facing life with insufficient money.
Until your mother stops enabling his dysfunction, he will never receive the brainwashing he needs.
She is hurting her brother by treating him as a child. Some people are lucky and can get those skills from their parents. Others aren’t so lucky but can learn the skills if they encounter the natural consequences of their choices.
But when someone steps in to prevent that encounter with natural consequences, they basically make the person stuck in that immature state.
The poor guy is screwed until your mother develops a moral backbone and does the actual right thing, instead of the thing that feels nicest.
You are under ZERO obligation.
Ideally, since you have an income and still live with your parents, it would be good of you to contribute to household costs, water, garbage, electricity, internet, rent, fuel, groceries, that sort of thing.
Things you consume. You aren't obligated to, but it would be good to contribute.
Anything else? Deadbeat Uncle? Nope! Hard nope! I'd move out first.
How is he not financially stable? Does he work a low wage, spend beyond his means, etc? Id base my decision off of that. If he's making decent money but spending it all maybe I'd help with building a budget and evaluating expenses to see where all the money is going. If a low age maybe helping update his resume and looking for a better paying job that matches his skillsets
- spend more than income.
- have some loan because past bad decicion (got to pay the interest)
Well some of his income is your mother’s gifts. So maybe his income and spending are balanced.
This is entirely up to you and your internal set of ethics and obligation.
You didn't mention if your Uncle is irresponsible or wasteful with money. For myself I think this would be the key to my sense of obligation.
If your Uncle is frugal and very careful with money, but needs more for basic quality of life for your nieces and nephews, then I would think its appropriate and fine to help out to some % of your disposable income, maybe 3% or 5%. Think of it like family based charity.
On the other hand if your Uncle is wasting money extravagantly, then there is no point in helping, because it will be - at best - wasted, and encourages the Uncle to continue wasting as much money as possible to always be in need to maximize the donations.
But this is entirely up to you, if you don't want to pitch in, you don't have to! However, it does set the tone for family expectations if you need help in the future.