German here. There is no labor shortage, just a shortage of decent job offerings because lo behold employers are stingy.
this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2024
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I mean yes, that too, but there actually is a labor shortage as well. We have 2.7M unemployed people and 700k open positions (source).
However, we need to account for
a) unemployed people that are not able to work due to illness etc b) those 700k open positions are only the ones that are reported to our labor agency (Arbeitsagentur).
If you account for that, we probably have closer to 2M open positions.
Imho 2M open positions makes more sense as there about 100k open positions in child care (Kita) alone.
But there wouldn't be a shortage if those jobs would pay decent wages and offer tolerable working conditions, or pay tolerable wages with decent working conditions.
Also there is many people who came as refugees and want to work, but they are prohibited form doing so.
That is at least in the next few years. With all the boomers retiring the economy is going to get fucked either way.
However, we need to account for
a) unemployed people that are not able to work
Not sure how it works there, but I believe in the US, the Bureau of Labor Statistics doesn't count people unable to work in their "unemployed persons" numbers.
Like...a 3 month old infant isn't considered "unemployed" for statistical purposes, for example.
Freaking unemployed infants leeching off society
you're probably right. I might have gotten misled because there's an ongoing debate about unemployed refugees here and it's mostly because we're terrible bat getting them permits to work.
They often are simply referencing the number of people reporting and/or applying for unemployment benefits.
unemployed people that are not able to work due to illness etc
that's not unemployed, that's not participating in the labour force
As someone who is currently looking for a job, I can say that there is nowhere near the amount and selection of jobs on the job center database as there is on the big online job boards, at least for what I'm looking for, so I wouldn't necessarily rely on that.
As an American, how do I sign up to work in Germany? Practically speaking, not just the "official" way.
Go to the website of your nearest friendly German embassy and read about visa rules. Or you could just try coming over as a tourist to get an idea whether this is actually the place you want to live in. If so, start learning German. That's always your first step.
Well really the only step is to get hired in the first place, then you can request residence based on that.
But it's next to impossible to get hired as someone outside of the EU/Single Market unless you have many years (3-5 probably) of experience in a highly in-demand field/specialization, usually STEM stuff especially anything in tech or engineering, but also medical jobs since most EU countries put an artificial restriction on the amount of doctors that can be produced – in fact, because of this, western European countries tend to import loads of doctors from eastern European countries and Cuba which often don't have these restrictions and can produce many excess doctors. Keep in mind though medical professionals that, due to those artificial caps on doctors (which were created as a way to restrict supply and maintain the high status/prestige and pay of being a doctor) you usually have extremely long hours and are overworked to hell, with relatively poor working conditions, but I imagine it's still way better than in the US (which also has those artificial caps) for most who aren't top surgeons since at least the EU has worker protection laws lol.
I imagine trades are also highly valued by the government seeing as Europe has a critical shortage of people working in trades, due to the governments neglecting them, refusing to do much to value them, leading them to have worse pay and conditions than white-collar jobs. Why go through all the bullshit that is working a trade in the EU and just get underpaid and mistreated, when you can instead get 2x the pay and benefits of working an office job? So that's also probably doable.
I do fuck all most days. Maybe 2 hrs a day. It wasn't always like this, I used to work a solid 40hr week, but as I've settled into my role, I've made vast efficiency improvements. Im not doing less work, Im just very fast at doing it.
There are moments, of course, when some part of a project derails, and then I spend 6 hours straight investigating some weird minor anomaly, but those are getting rarer as I phase out old projects that I inherited.
Are you in a tech related field? I feel like if I tried that at my butcher job they would assign me even more work.
It’s really only office jobs that get this sort of luxury.
I don‘t see how smaller shifts at the same pay wouldn‘t work in virtually every industry. What‘s so different about a butcher, carpenter or taxi driver compared to a store clerk who works half time already? In terms of organizing I mean. There isn‘t a professional that isn‘t affected by ever developing automation processes. At least indirectly, but only the rich get to reap it‘s benefits for as long as I live. It‘s time to change that and a universal 30 hour work week is a good start.
If you let your office worker who only works effectively fo 30 hours go after these, instead of having a shitshat coffee for 2 hours every day at the office, you still get the same result.
If you let your butcher go after 30 hours you need to hire another one, because you need a butcher there during opening hours.
Indeed.
I'd even say it was once the natural way. As you got better/faster at a task, you absolutely got more free time and less work fixing mistakes, too.
If members of a hunter/gatherer community got better/faster, they had more time to do other things. That would still be true if money wasn't the direct goal of all: if a tailor/carpenter/dentist/etc. does a better, more permanent job, they have less work fixing and repairing and get a better reputation.
Only when you manufacture for sheer output and/or your employer's sole interest is to squeeze maximum value out of you is our relationship to work perverted into the now common "the faster you work, the faster you receive more work."
Only time I heard about anybody asking for a 4 day work week recently was the GDL strike. So while I agree, it’s probably more of a tech thing, there are blue collar jobs fighting for it.
A 4 day work week would be real nice, because for many, Saturday is the recovery/errands day, and Sunday is the stressing about impending Monday day. The article points out about places needing to be open but wouldn't spreading out hours over 2x 4 day full time positions make more logistical sense than 1x 5day and various part timers on the weekends and here and there, with the overlap on whatever is the typically busiest day?
Tbh as nice as it sounds that everyone has Sunday off it is one of the few things that need to but will never change(among others are: being able to sell alcohol everywhere and no speed limit on the autobahn and also ‘Digitalisierung’). I’m not saying that people are not entitled to have at least on day of rest every week. But the original ‘Christian’ reason to be able to attend church is way past its time. no one goes to church anyway and people just accept that they can’t buy groceries because ‘oh well it’s sundayshrugs’ People should be able to pick their free day and also be able to buy fricking groceries or go to a hardware store… think about it for a second: it creates job opportunities and collect sales tax..
I managed to get this instead of a pay raise. One of the very best decisions I ever made. Sure more money is always nice but it wouldn't be the difference between buying a house and not anyway. Might as well reclaim life time and enjoy what I got, while I got it.
That would make me rethink and I probably would move back to Germany to enjoy this.
The country is about to turn into a fascist regime in the next few years. While the fascists from the AfD now openly talk about their plans of mass deportation, the "conservatives" talk about destroying social welfare and fighting migration. They claim this way they would take votes away from the fascists, but it only helps them and they know it. The supposedely progressive parties are also turning into right wing populists, be it on migration, social welfare and enforcing austerity measures on the country instead of doing direly needed investments.
Meanwhile the next years will be marked by millions of boomers retiring, causing massive disruptions in the economy, and the disparity between payers and takers of the pension funds will be "adressed" by ramping up the amount taken from the workers or by using most of the tax money on it. Lowering the pensions will not be done, because the old people are the dominant demographic and political force. They will ride this country into ruin, rather than taking less for themselves.
Germany is going to turn into a dumbster fire and the further people stay away from it, the better for them.
You sound like a doomer, let my try myself, I have several options where I could live in:
- What you wrote there fitts very well on Sweden, also but they also already have gang violence and the highest number of shootings in the EU
- In Poland they're even worse, saying no to abortion rights, getting really close to how russia treats LGBTQ, they want the same for themselves.
- Korea is the most depressed country in the world, worst birth rate in the world 0.6 children per woman, and they can't fix those problems with imigration either
- China has the same problem as Korea but is an autocratic dectatorship on top of that, racist through and through
Seems the world is already a dumpsterfire.
Neither Sweden nor Poland have an unresolved genocidal past that could reemerge into mainstream society. German culture is a particular combination of German Angst, lack of empathy, wish for a strong leader and reluctance to take responsibility for their own actions.
Could you elaborate on unresolved past, lack of empathy and the wish for a strong leader? As a german I really wonder on what you base that opinion.
About 20% of the people want to vote for a party that considers remembering and warning about the Holocaust as bad. In Bavaria a guy is now vice president of the stat after gaining even more votes from a scandal, where it was shown that as a teenager he wrote fascist propaganda, suggesting to reopen Ausschwitz and made the Hitler salute and "jokes" about the holocaust at a former concentration camp memorial. The scandal gained him votes instead of losing them.
The individual responsibility of most actors during the Nazi time was swept under the rug. Many high ranking Nazis made a career in Western Germany. There is places named after Hans-Martin Schleyer and he is celebrated as a Martyr fighting against communism. He was a high ranking Nazi who was tasked with "aridifiyng the czech economy" and later become the head lobbyist of the Employer organisation. The interior intelligence and police were founded by Ex-Nazis and the guy who wrote the Nuremburg race laws later became the guy who defined what constitutes Germans and what not, under laws that are still active today. The laws on abortions as well as many rulings on the limits of the right to strike still originate from the Nazi era. Homosexuals, Sinti, Roma, people with disabilities and political groups that were also genocided in the concentration camps are to this day not properly recognized and compensated as victims of the genocide.
For lack of empathy look into the current political cliamte, where politicians gain votes and popularity, by demanding to cut social welfare, by demanding to abolish the constitutional right to human dignity (Art. 1 GG, see Jens Spahn on abolishing basic social welfare) demanding to violate the UN human rights conventions by arbitrarily limiting the right to asylum. In the more day to day you can see it in a lack of speaking up when seeing people being harassed, people generally being more negative. Her is an interview with a neuroscientist who concluded that not showing empathy is becoming presentable (https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/empathie-hass-ist-einfach-salonfaehig-geworden-100.html). German culture generally places high regard to economic success and the society is quite materialistic. This favors sociopathy and psychopathy as positive traits, rather than negative traits.
For whishing a strong leader and abolishing democracy the rates in surveys are steadily increasing. In eastern Germany every third person whiches for a Führer again. https://www.dw.com/de/jeder-dritte-ostdeutsche-w%C3%BCnscht-sich-einen-f%C3%BChrer/a-66057204
Finally if you spend some time in Germany and outside of Germany, you will probably find that Germans are generally more scared people, that are quick to project their fear of potential losses into hostility. Germans tend to not accept, when they are not knowledgeable or wrong about a topic and are quick to "klugscheißen" other people. Also if you talk with people who are considered not to be German, you'll find that even if their great grandparents moved to Germany and they grew up here, and never went anywhere else, they are still considered foreigners. And if you talk with them a bit further, you'll hear many stories of racism in day to day live. From my "non German" friends everyone experienced violent attacks. One was attacked with a knive. And even a German Saxon friend of mine was attacked in Dresden, because he has dark hair and his skin is a shade to brown for the likings of the "aryans"
A labour shortage we only have because of a combination of wanting to pay managers more and workers less (thanks FDP and CDU! 🤮) and of course if it's up to the right wingers like the CSU, the AfD and part of the CDU, it'll get worse as plenty job areas like cleaning or child care already massively depend on immigrants to have any workforce at all.
But yeah I could easily do what I do in 4 days. 2 days if I didn't have so many so pointless meetings.
YES! ....... FUCKING YES! .......FUCKING DO IT!
I'd love a four day work week. But in all honesty, should I ever have the pleasure of having it, I don't think I'd work harder than I am now. I already give it my all, and it's paid off nicely. But dsepites the arguments, I'd be less productive if I'm working a day less.
4 day work week is not about work, but about life.
Thank you for the effort. I understand your point and am quite shocked as that totally differs with my experience being born and being raised in germany.
I am more of a Roman type than the aryan viking type but my grandfather was part of the Wehrmacht and was never "entnazifiziert".
I totally get the leaning right politics we currently experience throughout Europe in general and Germany is not excluded.
I was under the impression that in comparison to the Japanese being confronted and learning from the atrocities throughout ww2 the Germans had quite a lot education to be done and to this day we still "remember and atone for our crimes". Throughout our day and involvement in the EU I feel we are always considering side effects and take in regard our history. Our education system highly points out all the bad things our forefathers did and acknowledge that we don't want to be the bad guys a third time.
Currently there are very large demonstrations throughout all of Germany including people of every color from every background showing their hate for the right wingers.
Thank you for taking the time to answer so thoroughly.
@alphacyberranger Most "4 day week" offers that I read so far just spread out 40 hours of work to 4 days x 10h instead of 5 days x 8h. I don't see the point in that and I do not think that is what this study intended. :)
I respect your opinion, but I do see the point.
Not working a fifth day means not having to commute both ways on another day, which is unpaid but encumbered dead time. And a third day with the family every week by moving hours to the other four days? I absolutely see why people can find that appealing.
@UndulyUnruly Oh, you are right on the commuting part. I did not think about that.
Not so sure about the "time with family" argument, though. If I had to work 10h days I would not see my kids when I come home for 4 days. Now I see them every evening. Sure, on the other hand you get 3 WHOLE days to spend with them.
Guess it comes down to personal preference. :)
edit: But the idea behind the 4 day week after all is 4 x 8h, not 4x 10h. Because otherwise the productivity would not increase. And the article clearly states that this is the main goal.
I guess it’s personal preference circumstances. Time is a zero sum game after all. And I agree with the point made on the article, it should be 4x8.
How would that work? By law you are not allowed to work more than 10h a day in Germany (only exceptions which you have to justify, else you can get in trouble)
Well, 4x10h are not more than 10h a day, right? And if it is 4x9,25h (37h week), then you even are able to do 0,75h overtime per day, still within the bounds of law. At least that was my understanding.
Yes, sounds great on paper, but knowing how acute the Labor shortage is in certain industries, I can only imagine that this won't be applicable.
Well then those industries better increase the salaries, so that the workers don't move to the companies that do offer a 4 days week.
Most of the "labor shortage" comes from companies paying comparatively bad and the country making it obnoxiously difficult to immigrate for work.
Yes, to be honest salaries are definitely lagging behind. Rents are extremely high in most bigger cities, sometimes you need to pay around 50% or more just to put a roof over your head. Buying real estate is literally impossible unless you inherit some money, etc.
Obviously doesn't work if everyone goes to a 4 day week. But I actually think a standard 4 day week with 1-to-2 day/week part time work available is a good "form factor" for work.
When I was younger I had multiple jobs at the same time but it was awful working super long days or 7 days in a week. When I began to feel financially comfortable with my full time job I quit the other job and had more free time. I'm glad I took my younger years grinding to set myself up to work less later.
I know the ideal scenario is the 4 days pay enough for everyone but realistically some people will need multiple jobs and ideally we could formalize it as the not-so-bad version of multiple jobs and have it be a time in someone's life rather than a permanent feature of the working poor.
Do they expect each person cutting one fifth of them and forming a new person out of 4 cuts?
Funny though, but opposite. Everyone cutting 1/5 of their job and formning a new one.
But that means 20% smaller salaries. I like my idea better. Plus, would it create even more open positions? That is more labor shortage?
That's the nice thing, you keep 100% of your salary
I already basically have one. The firm I work for offered flex schedules starting in 2019 where a person could work 40 hours over four days, or do 36 and then have a half-day somewhere during the week. My half-day is on Fridays, when I basically just make sure my email is caught up.
I have a 4 10 hour day schedule as well, But that's not what this is about. This would be a 32 hour work week so it would be removing a day instead of cramming the same number of hours into fewer days.