this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2024
140 points (93.8% liked)

News

23366 readers
5556 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
JonsJava
rjc
Thekingoflorda
Tenthrow
gedaliyah
little_cow
jeffw
enu
140
Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars (www.reuters.com)
submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/news
79 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Rental firm Hertz Global Holdings (HTZ.O) said on Thursday it would sell about 20,000 electric vehicles, including Teslas, from its U.S. fleet due to higher expenses related to collision and damage, and will opt for gas-powered vehicles.

Shares of the company, which also operates vehicles from Swedish EV maker Polestar among others, fell about 4%. Tesla's (TSLA.O) stock was down about 3%.

Hertz also expects to book an about $245 million charge related to depreciation expenses from the proposed EV sale in the fourth quarter of 2023.

Hertz's decision underscores the bumpy road EVs have hit as the growth rate on sales of those vehicles has slowed, causing carmakers like General Motors (GM.N) and Ford (F.N) to scale back production plans of those vehicles.

Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas in a note said the car rental firm's move was a warning across the EV space and it was another sign that EV expectations need to be "reset downward across the market."

"While consumers enjoy the driving experience and fuel savings (per mile) of an EV, there are other 'hidden' costs to EV ownership," Jonas added.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 89 points 10 months ago (8 children)

They almost exclusively bought Teslas and Polestars and are now complaining about maintenance costs? I remember a few years ago, the first time Tesla wasn't on the very bottom of the JD Powers Initial Build Quality list the editors put up a special note that it wasn't because Tesla had gotten better, only because Polestar was even worse.

Seems like Hertz's main problem is common sense.

I'd really like to rent a Hyundai Ionic 5 for a road trip next summer but I can't find anyone local that rents any electrics other than Teslas.

[–] [email protected] 35 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Ehhh, EVs, and modern cars in general, have a bit of a bad habit of adding a bunch of technology that makes what used to be pretty cheap repairs way more costly.

It used to be if you had a fender bender that tore apart your bumper, you were able to replace the bumper for pretty cheap, like maybe $100 just for the part, couple hundred for labor, because it's just a big piece of molded plastic.

Now, the bumpers often house tons of sensors, often up to and including rear-view cameras. Now to replace your bumper and all the sensors, the bill is $5k.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Some of that's not even that modern. I got in a small accident in my 2007 Prius and they had to replace the entire front of the body. The bumper, grill, and front quarter panels are all shipped as a single piece.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I think you might have gotten taken advantage of as I'm pretty sure the front quarter panel is not attached to the front bumper and can be replaced individually.
The grill I'm not sure about but I'm pretty sure I've disconnected the bumper from the front quarter panel on my 2007.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I could also be misremembering the details, it was 10+ years ago and insurance made me take it to the dealer for body work. I remember it was a lot of the front end though.

Edit: I suddenly remembered the details. When the bumper crumpled it broke the clips on the quarter panels that attached it to the frontend assembly. So they had to replace the quarter panels too.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Modern cars - even in 2007 - were designed to crumple in an accident. I'm not surprised that those panels also go enough damage that they need to be replaced.

Though of course I have no information on this incident. I'm just speculating based on general knowledge without knowing specific facts that are relevant.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago

That's certainly possible!

[–] FuglyDuck 10 points 10 months ago

Tesla touch sensitive, motorized door handles…. That are now everywhere… are a perfect example of those.

Even if the flush-handle made enough of a difference to justify it, motorising the thing so it pops out was stupidly over-engineering the problem.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

Replaced a taillight for a late model GMC Sierra. Dealer only item, $770 bucks list and had a CORE CHARGE on a taillight. Absolutely nuts.

[–] Regna 4 points 10 months ago

Really informative video. Thank you.

I am kind of happy that I cheaped out on my car when I bought it. The only real issues I have had were that the speakers bugged out so that one side sounded like faulty wiring inside a tin can, and the Bluetooth connection made it impossible to make or take calls while driving as it blasted the caller or recipient with aggressive loud static. None of these really needed fixing, music is nice but not a must have and I could blame the car when I didn’t want to talk to people when I was driving or running errands. The new owner hasn’t seemed to notice or has no complaints…

Funnily enough, I thought I’d have to sell the POS at a loss, but I got money back that covered my car loan and afforded me an e-bike at least.

Tried with an EV car from a car pool for a while as well, but the e-bike was so much better.

[–] geogle 7 points 10 months ago

They have a bunch of Chevy bolts in the fleet too. I loved renting them because they were cheap and fun to drive. I'd return them with almost no charge left for their$25 fee, because they were slow charging and I normally didn't have a place to go up for long spells.

[–] this_1_is_mine 4 points 10 months ago

NGL the venue was not a bad rental. Just not something I would own. I literally was lost in a parking lot looking for my car and was basically standing next to it when I hit the panic button to find it. It looks like so many other things its hard to find it.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] Mamertine 26 points 10 months ago

I just rented an EV from Hertz. I loved it. I planned to rent one next time I needed a rental.

Granted, I'm not keeping them in business with my 2 rentals a year.

[–] psychothumbs 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hopefully the now arriving wave of electric cars built by incumbent car companies won't have the same issues as Teslas in terms of being single integrated bricks of technology that you have to throw out if any part breaks.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Like GM's Optium cars straight up not allowing you to drive because of failed OTA updates? OTA updates should not be necessary in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

Tesla is notoriously shitty with repairs and the fact that they are dumping them because of that is not surprising.

[–] TheDannysaur 16 points 10 months ago (9 children)

I wouldn't be surprised if the hidden costs aren't just around time. EVs are great, generally, but they're sort of purpose specific. Having a 250 mile range (at best), people generally not knowing where to recharge, the additional time to recharge, not being able to charge at a lot of hotels, severely limited long range ability (without a lot of stops)... All of those add up to a poor experience. I can't think of a time where I rented a car and an EV would have been an option that I wanted. MAYBE if I only needed to go as much as a single charge would allow me, but this is just not a good fit for rentals, in my opinion.

[–] geekworking 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

100% this. My sister had a nightmare rental experience. The rental company was sold out on gas cars and gave her a Hyundai EV.

She had to drive about 200 miles through some remote areas. When she left, the car said 300 miles. She figured 50% was a good enough buffer. She started driving and range dropped quickly. About 100 mi into the trip, it was saying 40 miles left.

She was in the middle of nowhere with spotty cell reception worried that she would be stranded in the desert. She was afraid enough to call her daughter and say, "If you don't hear from me, send help."

The only charger she could find was at a Hyundai dealer. She just made it, but had to sleep in the car until the next morning when they opened to get the car charged.

She swears never again.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago (2 children)

That's not an EV problem, but one of infrastructure.

This is like complaining about useless combustion engines when driving somewhere with no gas stations...

[–] Seasm0ke 13 points 10 months ago

Only partially, inaccuracy in range estimations are certainly an EV problem.

[–] fat_stig 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If the infrastructure doesn't support EVs for a journey, that's an EV problem.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Everyone seems to miss the "higher expenses related to collision and damage" part which is actually the most important part.

Why would electric cars crash more often than ICE cars? EV and ICE cars should drive exactly the same. I know my electric Berlingo drives exactly the same as ICE Berlingo.

Maybe the reason is that some popular EV brand makes cars that are dangerous to drive by installing non-standard steering wheels, turn signal switches and touch screens instead of buttons (not to mention too powerful engines)? If that's the case it says nothing about EVs in general and definitely doesn't indicate there are 'hidden' costs to EV ownership. Just don't buy bad EVs only because they have more range.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Nothing in that statement indicates EVs are crashing more frequently. What they're saying is that all their rental vehicles are susceptible to crashing but these ones cost a lot more to fix compared to the rest.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Well they've lost my business. I refuse to rent a ICE car here in Europe, unless I'm renting a van or something for hauling something. Why should I pay for gas, give kids asthma, and contribute to climate change whenever I need a car? Plenty of EV options here that aren't shitty like Hertz.

[–] polygon6121 4 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Very noble of you but most environmental issues with cars are not related to what kind of fuel they are propelled forward by. Rental cars are arguably a better option for the environment, because it is one vehicle used by many, regardless of fuel type.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I doubt OP is intending to forgo renting entirely.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

The main hidden cost is that regular ass people aren't going to be able to afford one for another twenty years or more.

I'm in my forties, and I'm still driving a car from 1999.

I have never owned a new car, all my vehicles have been used, and I've bought them in cash, outright, no car payment.

The prices will never come down on a used EV enough for me to justify the purchase, especially since I can find cars from 20 years ago that don't have excess features that will cost me more money to repair. Like a bunch of rear-view cameras and sensors, often placed inside the bumper, make a small fender bender into a costly repair bill because it's no longer just a bumper, it's a bumper with all kinds of expensive shit inside of it.

You can't find an EV with roll-down windows, no extras, and just a radio. They don't fucking make 'em. EV's were just the first step of the auto industry fully embracing that all vehicles are luxury, and economy cars just don't exist anymore.

Add to all this that charging networks haven't exactly rolled out nationwide and you're left with feeling stuck with ICE cars longer than you'd like.

I would have loved an EV a decade ago, but literally nobody is making an EV I can fucking afford before I croak.

Long story short: As with everything, the blame will be put disproportionately on the poor while ignoring that buying an EV is something most poor people simply cannot afford.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

Yup, a cheap EV is an EV with a dead $20k battery in it

[–] Diplomjodler3 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

EVs are a lot cheaper to run so maybe you shouldn't concentrate exclusively on the sticker price. Also, in the long term EVs will be cheaper to buy than gas cars too. Right now the limited availability of batteries puts limits on EV adoption. That will change in the next few years. Then EVs will be both cheaper to buy and to run than gas cars. The problem of increasing complexity and worse repairability applies to all modern vehicles, regardless of drive train.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I live in a ski town, people in rentals drive recklessly and crash the things A LOT. I can absolutely understand the decision to switch to cheaper cars.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The US is also far behind on EV infrastructure compared to places like Europe. In Europe, a long roadtrip is now pretty easy to achieve in an EV. Not so much in the US.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›