this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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To everyone who’s been telling OP off, claiming “free speech” and such: there’s still free speech. They can say whatever they want, but we don’t want to hear it. To correct myself: the majority of us don’t want to hear it. You have every right to convert instances if you disagree. Moderation is always going to be opinion-based; everyone has their own opinion of right and wrong.
So don’t talk about “free speech” and then wonder why you get downvoted into oblivion. We simply don’t want to have to deal with this nonsense. Keep in mind too that Lemmy doesn’t let you block an instance yet(AFAIK); it’s up to the instance admins. Just like a government, a user is going to pick the instance to best represent them. And just like a government, that instance will probably act in favor of the majority. So please just stop complaining. There is no plus to federating with rammy.site and frankly, we don’t need them.
They are not going to stop complaining. A lot of the folks that are on these instances that get blocked have alts or create new ones just to concern troll. It was obvious in this thread yesterday: "wow you defederated preemptively from hexbear but the obvious Anti-Trans right-wing instance stays? LW Admins must Nazi lovers and transphobes!" kind of posts. While in fact we were reaching out to the admin of rammy.site and having a talk/vote on how to proceed - even if it was obvious. This isn't a one-man show and this isn't a full time job it's a hobby so it can take a while for everyone to get his or her vote in.
One of these trolls was an admin of hexbear who was dumb enough to use their name in their email address..
Another hexbear user was angry because I didn't want to transfer a community over to her. She felt like she had the rights to [email protected] over the moderator who created it here on LW because she moderated the original community on reddit. She ask me to just hand it over to her and the reddit mods or rename the current existing one.. After I denied to do that - but proposing the be the middle-man in the talks with the current moderator - she started saying "the community will not like that and they will react to this".
So that's another thing to keep in mind. I just ignore it now and ban the accounts because there is no talking or being reasonable with these people.
Honestly those ultra right-wingers are pretty bad but the ultra left-wingers are worse. And as a lefty that is pretty sad to see. But I'm probably not left enough for those on hexbear and still "imperialistic scum".
The hexbear admin deleted most of their offense posts and then went on the Lemmy admin matrix chatroom saying how bad LW was to preemptively blocking hexbear, pretending to play nice. "It took them longer to defederate from exploding heads" so that must mean they are islamophobic, transphobic enablers."
As if it is not normal that you learn from your mistakes. Lemmy.World is less than 2 months old and we do what we think is best for this instance. We vote on these topics and then act. And we have no obligations to accept that kind of shitty behavior and have our users be confronted with it.
Just want to say, I really appreciate this. It's nice to see moderation/administration firmly put a foot down on right wing bullshit after seeing how much Reddit enabled it.
I am one of those persons that mentioned the hexbear situation here. I was not concern trolling and I find it a bit harsh to lump everyone under this umbrella term this way.
The fact is, historically, many social media platforms have been quick to act against radical left speech but very slow (even complacent) to act against right wing extremism. Society as a whole is mostly like this. So yes, I do have concerns even though I understand this is all very new. No offence was meant by mentioning the previous situation, but it made sense to do it then, to my mind at least.
Thank you for your work moderating this platform.
Thank you so much for your work moderating this instance, you and people like you are truly making lemmy a better place for all of us.
Keep up the good work
I'm gonna add that free speech is free speech as long as it's not used to threat and intimidate. Those people do not know what real free speech is.
It's you who don't seem to understand what free speech is. Free speech is free speech period. As long as you have free speech you shouldn't be concerned about someone intimidating you because you always have the chance to answer back and the truth always prevail on evil and bullshit.
You dont understand the consequences of this take, I hope you get to understand one day.
I too hope that you understand that freedom is the only viable way to truth and justice
I too hope that you understand that breakfast is the only viable way to pancakes and maple syrup
Bullshit. You can have pancakes and maple syrup for any meal of the day.
Are you ok?
I too hope that you understand that pancakes is the only viable way to blueberries and syrup.
What anime did you get this idea of free speech from?
If you are interested in anime and japanese novels there's plenty of these that will teach you about freedom and free speech, one piece is probably one of the most popular.
God this response is so adorable lol
Free speech is the ability to speak freely. It is not the ability to speak freely without consequence nor a guarantee to have people listen to what you say. Someone telling you to fuck off and shut up because they don't want to hear your bullshit is their free speech right.
Actually, even in "fullest freedom of speech" places like the US or Canada, that does not extend to actionable threats. If you threaten a person in a context where they actually think they are in danger, that's a crime.
Free speech also doesn't apply to harassment in pretty much any country. If it did you could never have something like a no-contact order on an abusive ex-partner, for example.
At the very extreme end, free speech has plenty of limits even in the West. CP, snuff films, grooming, non-consentual distribution of sexual images, incitement of violence, etc are all illegal. For obvious reasons.
Oh to be so naive.
In the face of facts proving the election was not stolen while Trump presented zero evidence to show it was... how many Republicans still believe the lies to this day? It doesn't help that the entire party carries water to support the lies...
This is no free speech platform. Go over to the server rules at https://mastodon.world/about
*yells "fire" in a crowded theater
*Yells "nuuuuh uuuuuuh." Back
Panic subsidies and movie watching continues.
Freedom of speech, not freedom of reach.
First time I read that, and it's brilliant! It describes perfectly what's happening.
If you came up with that on your own, congrats. If you read somewhere, thanks for sharing.
Why? Because free speech! It's super ironic to see people claim to support free speech above all else including human decency, and then go "Edit: All of you downvoting can eat shit and die, Lemmy is just like Reddit!!" Like dude, by your own standard people have the right to also be mad at you. You can't say something like "free speech doesn't care about your feelings" and then complain that people hurt your feelings.
People yelling freeze peach actually want to be free of consequences for their shitty opinions
man it's not HER fault that bowser keeps kidnapping her
I think the larger point is that hateful assholes are welcome to be hateful assholes online, but we aren't required to help them do it.
Their freedom of speech doesn't create an obligation for anyone to listen to them or grant them a platform.
Exactly. Also, saying you're not allowed to exclude them from your spaces violates your freedom. Why should you be forced to interact with people who make you uncomfortable, especially in a social setting where everyone should find groups that they enjoy being with anyway?
The "free speech" argument to not defederating doesn't even hold water on lemmy. They still have their instance and are still allowed to say whatever the fuck they want. They're still federated with whoever is willing to put up with them. They just have to it away from everyone else, by themselves, hopefully into a void.
In my opinion the fact that things are federated is sort of one of the biggest advantages of, well, federation. You can curate your federation, and defederate from whatever shit show you want, without having to have a conversation about encroaching on someone's "free speech." Unfortunately people haven't quite figured that out yet because they're so used to the monolithic corporate run social media platforms. Maybe it'll start to catch on and we can put this tired conversation to rest.
That's why I joined unilem .. they have a specific policy not to defederate from any instance .. a policy with which I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not at all right wing, I hate Trump and I believe vaccines save lives. But I also believe that others have the absolute right to disagree. What's more my beliefs are strong enough that I can handle seeing alternate opinions. What I absolutely don't want is to spend my time in a echo chamber. You (and many others here) disagree and that's fine too.
I'll check that instance 👍
I am fine with people posting whatever. That said, let’s not confuse “I don’t want to subscribe” or “let’s not amplify” with “censorship”. Unless I misunderstand, nobody is trying to limit the right to post what you want. They are suggesting that there is enough divergence of preference between instances to “unsubscribe” as a group.
You can block any subs you dont want to see. Start clicking.
And admins of instances can defederate any instances they don't want to engage with. If you want to be on both start your own instance and federate with both. Start clicking.
Sure why not. I don't like cats maybe we can block those too, or peanut butter, or the color yellow.... At what point do we just scroll past the posts you don't like or just block it? At some point you just gotta keep on going with your day and not have a break down over everything. Shit like this just gives those fucking morons more fuel to keep doing dumb shit.
The nature of these platforms means you can exactly get what content you want. Start up your own instance and stop bitching and expecting people to cater to your whims.
Haha you are arguing against yourself at this point. Since you seem to hate what is here wouldn't it be more to your advantage to start your own instance?. Considering you are the one that is quote "Start up your own instance and stop bitching and expecting people to cater to your whims."....
I'm not the one bitching about things that other people are doing.
Did you fall in a pool for a while as a kid or do you just have some kind of tism? Just curious why you don't understand how words work.
People should keep complaining though! Fine, Lemmy.world isn't pro-freespeech, people should be aware so they can migrate to other instances.
Good, bye then. People who don't understand free speech and think it excuses widespread bigotry are more than welcome to leave and go fuck themselves.
Here's the thing: A person may have freedom of speech, but the people around them also have freedom to think they're an asshole and stop listening or responding. Getting banned from social media is not an infringement of free speech, it's other people exercising their freedom to not want you around them anymore.
Check https://mastodon.world/about - we are not a free speech platform and never claimed to be. It's right there in the rules. Go to exploding-heads.com if you want "free speech"
Free speech means the government can’t stop you from saying something. It does not mean you have the right to be heard, or even to force people to listen, or that private companies (like Lemmy) can’t remove your ability to post to their platform. Hell, it doesn’t even mean you can say whatever you want without consequences, which can range from being blocked to being banned all the way up to being arrested if it’s a threat.
So, feel free to say whatever you want, just don’t be surprised when you lose your ability to post.