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I can get behind this. Sure, we can criticise Team Blue for slow-dragging their feet on protecting Palestinians. Never said we couldn't. That said, there's clear consequences to a Trump victory. The Uncommitted have made it clear they grasp this and ask you to vote for Harris, even if they can't endorse Harris. Staying home, voting third party, or heaven forbid, voting Trump will just make things in the Middle East FAR worse.
“Voting is just a way to pick the person that will be sitting across from me at the negotiation table next year”, is one of the ways to think about it.
Harris‘ policy on Israel is ambiguous, weak and too-little-too-late. But you’ll get further trying to influence her administration than Trump 2.0.
The ambiguity is ironically a good sign. That she isn't outright committed to the status quo. But rather not willing to signal her actual position. If she came out strongly against Israel and for Palestine. Unfortunately that would be a large hindrance to her candidacy in the current climate.
It's a shame that those illegally occupying Palestine have such influence over our government. Especially after their terrorist attacks of the last few days. Not to mention the decades long slow genocide that's only accelerated in the last year.
She saw the Genocide Joe protests and is now "ambiguous" on this matter to pretend she isn't exactly like Biden on this subject.
It's okay to just say you disagree with Harris on some things and still vote for her.
Let's be honest. Without biden/trump it would be a non issue. Trump would smother out all reporting on the subject replacing it with trauma to the American people.
Well, your thought experiment actually just agrees with the uncommitted, since if they don't want to negotiate now that they want your vote, what hope you have after you lost that leverage?
I do agree with the uncommitted: voting third party because of Palestine is for idiots.
That said, if you are a political activist, and you think your one vote is the only thing you have to offer, you need a new ducking job.
The inability to think this way is why we’re in this mess. Happy Cake Day!
For real, that’s all I’ve been saying whenever people start come in and start bashing on Harris and pushing false equivalence. Like, yeah, Biden is super bad on his policy towards Israel and Gaza; I HOPE Harris will be better; I KNOW Trump will be worse.
That’s it. That’s the whole dynamic. That’s the only two choices we have as members of the American electorate.
You claim the Ds and Rs are the same, but you can very clearly see that the Ds are in favor of 10% less infanticide.
The genocidiers have us by the balls, folks. Nothing you can do but voice your full throated support for one of them.
Don’t put words in my mouth. You are a part of the problem that I’m highlighting.
Not only that, you must also shout down anybody who says they don't want to support genocide. Only full loyalty is acceptable.
Oh so you're likely voting dem anyway because you aren't stupid and/or racist but you also say Harris should abide by US law and stop arms sales to Israel? WOW LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A TRUMP SUPPORTER HERE BOYS
It is deeply fucked the way social media has conflated opposing genocide and supporting The Other Team.
Really reeks of the Bush Era "You're with us or you're with the Terrorists!" when it came time to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.
Literally. Many people seem to have forgotten all the lessons from 9/11 and the clusterfuck that followed
It's weird when you talk to yourself like this.
What do you mean?
As far as centrists are concerned, opposition to genocide is the other team.
Joining hands to pass the bipartisan "Glass the Middle East Act of 2024"
Don't you understand the difference? All of them can die of rape and starvation as of now or all of them can die of rape and starvation while Trump is president.
CaNt YoU SeE tHE DiFeReNcE? (This was annoying to type on mobile.)
These people are delusional. Somehow there's many situations we can't do anything about (like our politicians cannot even show disapproval over rape country called Israel even though we are their biggest benefactors) yet somehow not voting Democrat is the end of the world. We cannot do anything to make anything better but putting pressure on politicians is also bad. Oh, how convenient. Why can't they admit they have to think of their own interests first (at least the few things the Democrats will allow them).
A for effort
Was listening to a WTYP episode about stealth jets, and they priced all the different kinds of aircraft in "multiples of ending national poverty". ($10B is the current working figure)
The F-22s we used to shot down Chinese ~~weather~~ super spy balloons came in at 20x the cost. That's the only combat mission the plane has flown since it entered service over a decade ago.
These numbers are so big and these systems are so vast that it's easy to lose sight of them entirely. The idea that we could all live very comfortable happy lives if a tiny minority were to stop the war profiteering is very difficult for your retail Democrat voter to grasp.
Interesting story. I do wonder if any of this equipment was made to be used or is there "just in case."
This is a great summary of the issue.
So you’re saying I should still vote for infanticide? I don’t want that kind of blood on my hands. That’s the issue in the Trolley Problem.
Not voting is just allowing the worse option which still puts blood on your hands. Inaction still has consequences.
We don't live in a world where we have the ability to be completely pure, it's an option that simply doesn't exist unfortunately. :(
We need some way to denote "not gloating."
The joke of the modern American electoral system is that all the "viable" candidates are bloody. And if you abstain from voting or vote third party, you're accused of supporting the winning candidate, regardless of your personal politics.
That is, I think, a big part of what drives the street protests. Americans who don't want to be complicit in this barbarity have no other actionable way to express their condemnation.
The path to ending the conflict is through boycotts, not the president. But that takes time, so 10% less killing makes sense as a stop gap.
There is precedent for this. See apartheid South Africa. Palestinian freedom will seem impossible until it becomes inevitable.
US House overwhelmingly passes anti-BDS resolution
We've already seen individual states go so far as to issue state sanctions aimed at BDS movements. US House Resolution 246 seems to be an exercise in vote counting by the AIPAC Lobby to advance a national bill to the same effect.
The South African Apartheid system likely would have held up indefinitely if the US was the only country involved deciding its fate. And the Afrikaners had far less influence over the US Congress than the Israel lobby.
Pressure needs to be applied everywhere, from awareness by friends/family to personal BDS to local representatives to DNC delegates to Presidents. Anti-genocide and anti-apartheid momentum has made great strides in the last year, it's critical to keep that momentum growing. This will definitely be more difficult than the South African Anti-Apartheid movement
Be fair. They're in favor of 10% slower infanticide.
Thanks for this comment, clearing it up!
I was about to ask this - because if they aren't endorsing Harris but also asking folks not to vote for the GOP or third parties, then who should we vote for? Surely they're not saying stay at home and don't vote, right? (That was the only possibility that seemed not covered by the post's description.)
So another way to look at it is - (if one ignores the way they mince words and instead just looks at the practical effect then) they are in fact endorsing Harris, but in a muted fashion to express their displeasure over Harris's stance on Gaza.
HA.
Biden isn't dragging his feet...
He's moving at light ing speed (for his age) to support Israel's genocide in anyway he can, including going around congress illegally to avoid a delay of just a few days.
I just hate how all the blame is put on voters, it's literally Kamala and her campaign teams job to get votes, and despite how much they hate the thought, that means giving Dem voters what Dem voters want.
And they don't want to be citizens of pretty much the only country still supporting the genocide by sending munitions. Especially when it's a violation of the ~~Legacy~~ Lehey law and bare minimum we should be demanding Israel track the use of US supplied munitions.
Like. You're completely underselling the damage Biden and other party leaders are causing...
And then claiming you can't understand why people don't like him or the party's stance.
Why dont you spend your time and effort trying to stop a genocide instead of telling people they have to support a genocide?
Your way even if we win. Still a genocide.
If we demand Kamala and party leadership stop breaking US and international law, and they actually listen
Kamala could moonwalk into the oval office and Israel wouldn't be able to continue their genocide.
What's so hard about picking the best path?
We can stop trump and genocide or just stop trump.
Seems like an easy choice to me
I mean if I understand you correctly you're saying bascially the same thing as OP - can hold Biden/Harris feet to the fire while working to re-elect Kamala and defeat Trump.
And the fun part is these aren't my words. These are the words of the "Uncommitted" faction that wants to hold Democrats' feet to the fire. They're saying that at the moment, there's bigger fish to fry -- a MAGAt movement that would make everything Team Blue has done look like child's play in comparison. So, Mr. Give Some Fucks isn't just arguing with me. He's arguing with the guys and gals actually advocating for Palestinians.
Do you honestly think they give a fuck?
Sorry, can't answer that question. I'll be Rule 3'd if I did. :3
Incredibly generous way to put it. They are providing the weapons that maim and kill the innocent children. I criticise them for the blood on their hands