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New cars have always been expensive and out of reach for most, which is why the average new car buyer is well into their 50s.
I don't see how people can logically make an argument about the necessity of switching to EVs for the environment while also demanding that everyone gets a brand new car. Scrapping a bunch of perfectly good cars to build new ones is not going to help out our climate issue.
I'm not seeing "cash for clunkers" types of arguments here - I've always seen EV adoption as more about market share of new cars rather than share of the entire fleet.
Of course the former leads to the latter, eventually.
KIt’s too early for a “cash for clunkers” type of thing. That will be more effective when EVs are the typical new car and we want to retire older used gasoline cars a little faster. I do hope to see it soon,but to it this soon
I read that the issue with used EV's is that you eventually need to replace the battery pack which can sometimes cost you as much as the car.
Edit: Seems I was misinformed. Glad to hear that replacing EV batteries is not much of a concern.
I mean, you eventually need to replace the motor in an ICE car, but most people won’t… they’ll buy another vehicle instead. Most EVs lose a minimal amount of range over time… around 10% over 200k miles. Battery replacements are expensive, but not much more than replacing an engine on an ICE vehicle, unless you do all the labor yourself, and no one should be kidding themselves into believing they will actually replace a battery before they’d replace the vehicle… much like a car whose engine shits the bed. And the amount of savings you have in fuel and maintenance offsets the difference significantly, especially if you get to the 200k mark without trading up for a newer vehicle. Not to mention that there are Teslas on the road with over a million miles on them. You may not be as lucky, but 500k without replacing batteries is not uncommon.
I’ve driven a used Tesla for the last 4 years and have 110k miles on it. It’s still humming like the day it came off the line. It’s quieter, faster, has more torque and power, and I get more compliments on it than I ever did on the ford trucks, vw coupes, or Buick sedans I ever drove. I’ve only replaced tires, windshield wipers, wiper fluid, and the 12v battery and haven’t had any maintenance issues. I drive a lot, all over the country, and save around $2k a year in fuel costs compared to when I drove a Buick. I travel all around the country and have few problems finding charging stations (mostly when way off the grid… like Great Basin national park off-the-grid… but still found a charger) and have never been stranded or ran out of mileage on a given drive. A few pigtails and I can charge at any RV park or campground nationwide.
There is far too much misinformation about EVs and concerns with range or charging infrastructure or whatever the oil companies want you to be afraid of, and the savings in fuel costs outweigh any inconveniences I’ve experienced 10 times over.
Take the leap and you’ll never look back. I’ll never buy another ICE vehicle again. It feels like throwing money away.
I get that Elon is a bipolar asshole at times, but the mission to provide the infrastructure for a more sustainable future is what we need and the user experience is far better than reported.
I've wanted to get an EV for years now. Just don't have the infrastructure in my area yet and out of my price range. But I didn't consider buying used. It's great to hear that I shouldn't concern myself with replacing the battery.
If you have any way to charge at home, it’s a huge money saver and convenience. You’ll only get about 3 miles per hour off a normal 120v wall outlet, so maybe 20-30 miles over night. If you commute more than around 200 miles a week, you’ll have to have supplementary charging once a week or so.
If you can install a 240v charger, you’ll get between 25-35 miles per hour of charge, so you’ll easily get a full charge over night. It’s usually around $500 for the equipment and $500ish for the install, depending on the area, but it makes up for it over time. Imagine never having to factor time in to stop for gas on the way to work in the morning.
If you don’t have access to a wall plug and can’t install your own 240v charger, it may not be the right decision for you. If it is manageable for you, it’ll be a huge convenience and a big money saver.
Bought mine for around 40k 4 years ago and have saved around 8k in fuel costs… but I drive a lot.
Infrastructure needs depend on how the car is used. I have a basic level 1 charger (120v/15a household outlet) and so far have used public chargers zero times. There has only been one time where I didn't have enough charge for back to back trips to the next major city over, and had to rely on our second (ICE) car. Could have been avoided with a better charger. I have been hitting ~700 miles per month. One thing to keep in mind is that you just need enough charge to get to your destination and back. Going to the gas station is a big hassle so you are used to always filling up from empty. With the EV, my house is my refill station, so I just connect the cord every time I park. Even after a long trip where the car is near empty, charging slowly for 2 hours is enough for a quick errand. I'll admit that I would have some charging anxiety if I only had the EV with no backup, but practically speaking it just doesn't become an issue. Just keep enough charge to make it to the nearest hospital, and get a level 2 charger (240v/>=32amp) for almost 4x the charging rate.
And for the Europeans in the audience, we have 240V and 15A in a normal wall socket for twice the charging speed of our American friends but half the speed of their level 2.
While it was an easier choice for me due to good infrastructure, I haven’t needed it. The key is charging at home, if you can do that.
I installed a level 2 charger at home - electrician cost was similar to adding an electric stove circuit. I have the car configured to charge to 80% by default to maximize battery health, and plug-in when I get down to 50%. My typical “overnight” charging takes 2 hours. If going on a trip, I just override to 100% the night before and wake up to a full charge. Maybe I haven’ gone on many road trips yet, but I only used one public charger so far, and it was over 100 miles away
I rented a Chevy Bolt once and it came with a charging cable that would plug into a regular 110V outlet. I never tried it, but online it says that chafing method is about 7.5 hours. The Bolt’s battery was 250 miles, so only useful around town if there’s zero infrastructure in the area. But within those parameters, still useful if you can charge at home.
The idea that replacing an EV battery costs as much as the car itself is total rubbish. Sure, batteries aren't cheap, but they're not going to bankrupt you. Modern EV batteries last a long time, often more than a decade, and are covered by solid warranties. Plus, battery prices are dropping fast as technology gets better. Scaremongering about battery costs is just plain wrong and stops people from going green, which is the last thing we need
And if you buy a used car you will eventually need to replace a ton of parts. Honestly, unless the used EV that you buy is a Leaf, many EV batteries will last 200k miles and still have 85-90% of their range left.
If it’s even possible. I’ve personally swapped the main battery pack on a Gen 1 Prius. Not easy, but more tedious than technical. Lifting the assembled unit was a hell of a chore but a coulple strapping dudes managed it. Reconditioned cells are available in a lot of places. I’ve had a Nissan Leaf and would get another one, but even finding a battery, let alone any info on swapping it was pretty much impossible.
The second generation(2018 on) had a defect in their battery packs that caused a lot of them to need full replacements right after Nissan announced they weren't making Leafs anymore, so any extra batteries that might exist were used in Warranty repairs for that
Took my shop just shy of a full year
Why don’t we stop subsidizing fossil fuel companies to the tune of $1Trillion Anually, and instead put all of that money towards subsidizing purchases and further R&D of electric vehicles? Oil and Gas corporations could enjoy the competition of the free market, and we the people could get access to new EVs for under $10k out of pocket - it would be a win-win!
Like 16 years ago you could buy a brand new chevy aveo with an msrp of $10,300.
Small econoboxes used to be cheap and affordable.
Regardless of where you fall on EVs or new car pricing, the Aveo was hot garbage and there's a reason why they only cost $10k. This is the same reason why you don't see any of them on the road anymore.
True, but at the time you could get a Toyota Echo or a Honda Fit or a Ford Fiesta or even a Nissan Versa which are all small cars that no longer exist.
And I see plenty of them still on the road.
Those were priced higher and comparable to the compacts like the Corolla, Civic, and Sentra.
I think there just wasn't enough demand since people would rather pay a little more to get a little more car than they need for those rare times when a lot of cargo space was needed. Additionally, tiny CUVs like the RAV4 have increased in popularity quite a bit and still get great fuel economy, further reducing demand for the sub-compacts. These cars were also marketed toward young people like college students who have a harder time affording a new car these days and would rather buy a good used one for much cheaper.
You're not wrong about any of that, much to my dismay. I was just pointing out that those cars did exist and car companies can make them. The market and regulatory conditions just don't make it profitable.
If most of the people buying cars are in their 60s they're going to want economic cars with high seats because their knees and backs can't take getting into something lower. (I can say that because my knees and back already hurt, but I'm too stubborn to stop driving my compact manual car.)
There were a lot of good ones on the road that were sub $14 that still exist and are good for 200,000+ miles. I just pointed out one of the absolute cheapest.
That’s ridiculous. Who’s demanding that?
We need to push new EVs, because there are not enough used ones. What do you think a used car starts as? Be happy every time someone buys a new EV, because there’s another used one in 3+ years.
I got a new EV, because I needed a vehicle, and my pattern is to buy new and drive into the ground