this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
139 points (94.3% liked)

Ask Lemmy

27253 readers
2069 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either [email protected] or [email protected]. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email [email protected]. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try [email protected] or [email protected]


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Similar to the recent question about artists where you can successfully separate them from their art. Are there any artists who did something so horrible, so despicable, that it has instantly invalidated all art that they have had any part in?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 122 points 1 year ago (29 children)

Very boring answer but JK Rowling.

Her books already had some questionable shit in them but witnessing that shockingly venomous transphobia really recontextualizes everything. I used to re read the Harry Potter saga every few years, but never again now, this whole, very nostalgic for me franchise is forever ruined now.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Can I recommend reading/listening to Ursula K. Le Guin's Earth Sea books?

They're also coming of age books about a young wizard, which almost certainly heavily inspired Rowling (although AFAIK she never admitted it), but the author is far less problematic. Also arguably much better books, so they're more enjoyable to read for adults too.

[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And the cherry on top is this. You may notice a bit of misogyny built into a first couple books in the series, which is surprising given that Ursula is a woman. She not only noticed, admitted, and confronted that patriarchal slant, but corrected it by writing later stories in the same world that reversed that course. Those stories end up being much better than the foundational works in the series. I have become an instant fan of any author that can confront the flaws of their earlier writings and deliberately alter course to do better in their life and their writing.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] chitak166 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I always thought harry potter was boring as shit. Never got through a movie, never read a book.

But the people who I did see reading the books in class were the ones who definitely would take issue with Rowling's transphobia.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (27 replies)
[–] LEDZeppelin 108 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Kanye. Piece of shit narcissist through and through.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

yeah kanye for me too. used to be my favorite artist, paid out the ass for tickets on multiple tours, knew all the words to his first like, six albums. haven't listened to him in like a year and a half after the Alex Jones interview and Adidas stories came out. it's not even virtue signaling, it's just too much work to not think about all the horrible shit he's done and said. i count myself extremely lucky that i never got a tattoo

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] chitak166 13 points 1 year ago

It was always funny watching him talk about Jesus in his songs as though his lifestyle didn't promote everything Christ went against.

And of course, the next generation sucked it up like a sponge.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 94 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Kanye West. Maybe he was never 'all there' mentally to begin with, but the guy was clearly a role model to a lot of young people and utterly destroyed his own legacy.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] [email protected] 72 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Lost Prophets. Lead singer fucked babies.

[–] Delphia 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I honestly believe that if you're convicted of shit like this the band should be able to sue to have your rights to royalties and any songwriting/producing credits revoked. Even if they have to surrender any monetary outcome to the victims or their families.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Lead singer ~~fucked~~ raped babies.

FTFY

load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

whenever I see a meme with art from stonetoss (a neo-nazi) in it, I have a visceral response

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Jumi 54 points 1 year ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TheBananaKing 38 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Why would I try to do so in the first place?

Imagine someone telling you "you have to separate the product from the corporation. Yes, they lobby to permit slave labour and are directly funding the genocide in Palestine, but they make one fine chicken sandwich - and if you don't put down your silly objections to focus on that, you have failed as a human being".

Fuck that, fuck everything about that.

Art is political. Fiction doubly so. You cannot and should not try to rip art free from its cultural context, because that context is the perspective that gives it meaning in the first place.

And extra-splintery fuck the idea that the onus is on the audience to sweep everything under the carpet for horrible people.

We're in no danger of running out of art. We have an unlimited supply of artists just waiting for a break in the canopy to sprout up and grow into something new and exciting. If a handful of toxic assholes get canceled despite being popular, then so much the better.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I disagree. You can both admit that the company makes one damn fine chicken sandwich and still not buy it because they support slave labour. Them supporting slave labour doesn’t make it a bad chicken sandwich, just as them making a damn good chicken sandwich doesn’t stop them from supporting slave labour. It’s the method that’s important, not the reason itself.

[–] TheBananaKing 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

First up, fandom is free advertising; fuck them I'm not promoting their product for them, even if I don't buy it.

But more than that, it's sending a message that the behaviour is something we're willing to condone, that we stand with the abuser rather than their victims.

Imagine telling a sexual assault survivor to just lie back and enjoy the masterful comic stylings of Bill Cosby, or at least to shut up and let you enjoy it, because they're ruining the funny.

Would that person have reason to consider you a friend or ally after that?

The Harry Potter IP, for instance, is just a giant anti-trans flag now, and the people who wave it around are picking a side. They can't pretend they're not; pinning the logo to their chest is explicitly endorsing the author's views, and spitting in the face of every trans person in their life.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (11 children)

That's the point though, that some people will use the 'but chicken sandwich is good' as a justification to overlook the other problems and still buy them. My ex and Hobby Lobby, for instance - she'd want to go there and shop for paints because they 'might have a sale', and I was just uh, no? Fuck Hobby Lobby.

load more comments (11 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[–] TaeKwonDoh 35 points 1 year ago (9 children)

John Kricfalusi, creator of Ren & Stimpy. That man is a demon.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Rick & Morty guy kind of ruined his show, too.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] Crowfiend 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

"DJ" Khalid. I've heard that he's actually a very talented musician. I've never been shown proof that the claims are true.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Witchfire 33 points 1 year ago (5 children)

JK Rowling. Fuck Harry Potter.

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] pendulum_ 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ian Watkins, lead singer of the band Lostprophets. Never read the court transcripts of his crimes, they really are that horrible and will ruin you for some time.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] mx_smith 27 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I still listen to Michael Jackson but I won’t listen to R Kelly.

[–] Brekky 15 points 1 year ago

Well to be fair one was found guilty in a court of law and the other (I don't believe but feel free to correct me) didn't even have a criminal case brought against him.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] cashews_best_nut 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Ian Watkins. Leaf singer of Lost Prophets.

Convicted baby rapist.

[–] Brunbrun6766 25 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Roman Polanski and by extension Jack Nicholson

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Knitwear 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Marlon Brando

After hearing from Maria Schneider, and confirmed by Bertolucci, how he and Brando treated her filming the rape scenes in Last Tango my Brando crush instantly withered on the vine. She was only 19.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Not as if I'm a fan, but Eric Gill is/was a prolific, respected and internationally renowned artist. You'll his work across the UK, perhaps most notably on the BBC's broadcasting house.

Also designed the Gill Sans typeface, which I think everyone's heard of or even used. Used all across the world on signage or stores.

Here's why I have a hard time taking his works at face value:

Although the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography describes Gill as "the greatest artist-craftsman of the twentieth century: a letter-cutter and type designer of genius", he is also a figure of considerable controversy following the revelations of his sexual abuse of two of his daughters and of his pet dog.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gill

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Eh, not really.

Now, there are some examples where I won't/can't actively seek out their work, and would never contribute to them by buying anything at all, ever.

Cosby falls into that category, just as an example.

But, I have a complete separation as far as the work itself being valid/good despite the origins. Using Cosby as the example again, if I'm somewhere and one of his performances is on, I'm not going to care enough to change a channel or leave, or even say anything.

That's pretty much anyone and everyone. I just don't have that thing where a given item, piece of work, whatever, is "tainted" just because the person that made it is a piece of shit. I don't form an association like that. It's that I choose to not seek out some things as a matter of principle.

But, as a general rule, if they're dead, I don't care at all. And, if the person in question is only one person involved in a group effort, that group effort is fine by me. Like, if the guitarist of a band is a piece of shit, but everyone else is not, why would their work be a bad thing?

Now, this isn't to say that I ignore any bad acts when interacting with a given work. Take van Gogh as an example. His excesses and disturbing behaviors are part of his work to an extent. It's a thing where knowing the person's flaws informs the interaction with the work. Kinda like "gee, I wonder how much of this work stems from the same root as the bad acts did?"

But, I can enjoy the work of people I personally despise with no issues. I just don't have whatever it is that other people have that makes a thing tainted based on the creator.

Part of that is knowing how shitty humans in general are, and how hard it is to find any artist that didn't/doesn't have massive flaws. In music and painting in particular, you run into a shit ton of artists that were abysmal people. If I did have that whatever it is that causes a connection between the art and the artist's flaws, I wouldn't be able to listen to much music at all.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Terry Goodkind.

Can't separate the work from the author since both are pretty bad.

It takes a special kind of person to require a pinned "please don't celebrate deaths" reminder on Reddit when you die...

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›