this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2023
33 points (92.3% liked)

3DPrinting

14794 readers
62 users here now

3DPrinting is a place where makers of all skill levels and walks of life can learn about and discuss 3D printing and development of 3D printed parts and devices.

The r/functionalprint community is now located at: [email protected] or [email protected]

There are CAD communities available at: [email protected] or [email protected]

Rules

If you need an easy way to host pictures, https://catbox.moe may be an option. Be ethical about what you post and donate if you are able or use this a lot. It is just an individual hosting content, not a company. The image embedding syntax for Lemmy is ![](URL)

Moderation policy: Light, mostly invisible

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
j4k3
andypiper
henry_rowengartner
[email protected]
33
Prusa or Bambu? (self.3dprinting)
submitted 6 months ago by AbsurdityAccelerator to c/3dprinting
37 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I have enjoyed my Ender 3v2 but my extruder and hot end are acting up and I am ready for a more reliable printer. I like the simplicity of Bambu but it seems to come at the cost of customization. Prusa seems to be more open and extendable, but at the cost of increased complexity. What would you recommend?

top 37 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] j4k3 32 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Prusa has been a part of the community and active contributors since the very beginning with Adrian Bowyer's open source university project (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RepRap) That is why the entire hobby exists. If it wasn't for proprietary companies like Stratasys, we probably would have seen the hobby start in the 90's instead of the mid 00's. Exploitation through digital theft of ownership is terrible for everyone.

I bought a Prusa. I wouldn't accept a free Bambu printer if you paid me. If I have a choice to own a product, versus renting a product at full retail price when the product is not for sale, I think it is an easy decision. You can own or be owned. I am not for sale.

[–] flying_mechanic 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, the second half of this post is not a very true statement, and is pretty disingenuous to reality. The Bambu ecosystem can operate independently of Bambu labs if you want/need to, there are plenty of knock off replacement parts to keep it running long term, you can buy all the consumables from amazon/aliexpress and many of the other components. The slicer has a feature rich open source alternative too, so software isn't an issue. The only thing it has against it is its not open source. I own both a prusa and now 2 Bambu printers. I spent a long time researching what I was going to purchase to upgrade my prusa printers. The mk3.9 upgrade for my mk3s+ was almost the cost of a whole new printer, and new units were more expensive than the p1s. The p1p/s has more build volume, is faster, and has been more reliable and in general usable than my prusa ever was. I want to support prusa but they have fallen way behind in nearly every way. If you don't want your data collected and you desire privacy you can have that with a closed source product, it's not impossible. And you can get a better machine at 2/3 the cost of a prusa or a multi material one at the same cost.

[–] j4k3 3 points 6 months ago

I simply do not support any company exploiting an open source community. You will find that the parts availability will disappear as soon as retail availability dies. It happens with all proprietary garbage. The only reason for proprietary in this space is exploitation of the end user.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I really like the open nature of Prusa. I won’t tolerate a printer that requires a propriety web service to use like Bambu. I have a Prusa Mini, MK3S, and now the XL, and I am happy about how easy they are to operate and maintain. Every printer is a winner and only gets better with every release. I’m a customer for life.

That said, the cost is a little higher than I’d like and the technology is often a little behind (a bit like my Apple products) but the reliability is so good that it’s completely worth it.

[–] grayman 3 points 6 months ago

I'd add that quality and their adherence to open standards comes at a cost. That's why prusa is more and a little behind in fancy new features. But 100% that's a cost I'm willing to make to support such an amazing company that treats their employees so well and gives so much to the community.

[–] TheYang 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

I bought Prusa.
I hope to be able to still use the machine in 10 years.
I'm much less confident that BambuLabs machines will be able to do that, than Prusas. This is because of multiple reasons:

  • There are design decisions of Bambu that I do not trust (bushings on the x-axis on p1 and x1 machines), which track with the decisions of DJI which I didn't like and where many of Bambus people came from.
  • I much prefer to support a comparatively independent european maker than a chinese-bank backed one.
  • I do trust Prusa much more to offer long-term support than Bambu
  • I prefer to support Open Source, and I do think Bambu is still violating licenses (which imho should not be supported/accepted)
  • I do not like Bambus AMS design. Their reliability costs quite a lot of filament.

But Bambu has Prusa beat on price for similar performance. By a significant margin.

And to further your question, I'm not sure Bambus Printers have that much more "simplicity" in use than Prusas. Especially if you buy pre-built. Both are rather plug and play.

In short: I fear / believe that Bambu is exactly the kind of company that ruins products. Underbid your competition, cut costs at the customers expense. Why provide updates to your old products when you make a new gen? Why use a part that lasts longer than the required period for repairs? etc.
The fact that they started regular sales this year (I Believe before was pre-order?! would have to check) and already have 3 different platforms out (X, P and A) is quite a lot of fragmentation. Maybe they designed for that from the start, but... we'll see. AMS and AMS lite also seem quite different.
They may even be the worst kind, that underbids the competition and takes development costs as losses to destroy the competition until you are an effective monopoly, at which point you can fuck everything up way more (increase prices, cut quality / development etc)
In Fairness, they may also not be. They may also have excellent long-term reliability and support. Maybe in 5 years P1 and X1 still get feature updates. Maybe the design decisions turn out to be outstanding.

[–] HarriPotero 7 points 6 months ago

I've had my mk1 kit for nine years. I expect I'll get another nine out of it before it goes to college.

[–] grayman 5 points 6 months ago (1 children)

All great points. I am selling my Mk3 and just got a Mk4. The speed on the Mk4 is amazing. Build quality is definitely better on the Mk4 from the Mk3.

The bamboo is pretty full of thin plastic parts that you can't print to replace (something I did a few times with my Mk3). The not flat bed thing is weird and tells me they have a manufacturing issue that they worked around in software instead of truly fixing. I really hate the IP theft issue, so that is a deal breaker for me. Ultimately, the printer seems like a decent product but I also don't trust that it will last a decade.

The only thing I think the Mk4 is missing is a camera / octoprint support, but I can live without those.

[–] TheYang 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The only thing I think the Mk4 is missing is a camera / octoprint support, but I can live without those.

Firmware 5.1 enabled octoprint support.
Not as far as they'd like, but it works. From memory what is missing is some support when Local and Octoprint mix (i.e. when you print locally, octoprint can't stop the print. Bit annoying but far from a dealbreaker imho)

[–] grayman 1 points 6 months ago

Thanks for the correction!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

I have a Bambu P1S. I think biggest fear is the cloud stuff goes or gets hacked whereas Prusa prints straight to the machine which is less of a man in the middle problem. I can't speak of longevity but the P1S is pretty idiot proof as a printer and I like the AMS aside from the needless pooping which is more of a firmware issue - should be a way to suppress purge poops if a person knows they're using same filament between prints.

As for fragmentation, the X & P range are essentially the same except around the edges - the control panel, supplied nozzle, lidar, camera etc. The A seems like a weird diversion but it has been received favourably and slaughters the Prusa Mini which is getting on in years.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

One major con for Bambu is that the firmware is not open source (at least, last I checked). This puts you in a walled garden of sorts. It also can make you vulnerable, for example earlier this year a bug caused printers connected to Bambu's cloud to start prints that weren't request. You can imagine how bad that is.

This being said, I plan on my next printer upgrade being to a Bambu. I've gotten tired of the calibration game and Bambu does that well.

[–] grayman 3 points 6 months ago

Mk4 is amazing. Calibration is annoying. They definitely did an amazing job there. Bambu's plate is never flat... It's a manufacturing / design issue. They work around it in software. I can't imagine the other silliness in the printer if they can't even make a flat bed.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Personally I don't think Prusa is really as far behind as some people claim. A lot of printers on the market are still single material bed slingers, and it's not like Prusa doesn't have a Core XY, it's just a large and expensive machine (Prusa XL).

Considering they have been in the market a long time and their printers are known to be reliable workhorses, I went with the Mk4.

[–] TheYang 2 points 6 months ago (2 children)

A lot of people seem to to think that bedslingers are inherently worse than core xy kinematics.
Core xy is definitely more compact.
In return the belts are longerz tightening them more complex (x and y can become unaligned).
Core xy can be easier for input shaping, as only the z axis mass changes.

[–] IMALlama 3 points 6 months ago

Ellis, who is very highly regarded in the Voron world, thinks that bedslinger style printers can offer higher quality prints. My general surface finish is way nicer now that I have a higher quality extruder, but z axis artifacts are certainly a thing on my 350mm^3 CoreXY.

[–] roofuskit 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

You can print immensely faster on a coreXY machine, that's just physics.

[–] dual_sport_dork 2 points 6 months ago

And you can do it without yeeting your half completed print off the bed, either. Bed-slingers make me paranoid, justified or not.

[–] IMALlama 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

What do you mean by complexity? An i3 style cartesian peinter will have fewer motors, shorter belt paths, fewer bearings and what have you, etc.

A CoreXY printer will be able to move faster than a cartesian peinter and will accelerate a ton faster too. That said, if you really want to cut print times you need a larger nozzle and thicker extrusion widths.

Prusas are generally reliable workhorses. Bambu is newer on the screen, but fairly well liked. Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about some of the cloud infrastructure and closed source components.

I'm not sure if you've considered Vorons. If not, take a quick look at the trident and/or the 2.4. The build will be fairly involved, but you will have a super solid base that has a lot of community support.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

Except that voron 2.4s are close to double the price. Not everyone has that budget.

Kits on 3djake which has decent prices normally are 1650€ for a 300mm voron

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

A 250mm V2.4 is about 1200€. A trident is less than that and is more comparable to the Bambu.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Where? I can't find one in continental Europe.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Voron doesn't sell anything, you either have to source all the materials yourself or buy a kit. I bought a kit from formbot when I built my V0 and have been pretty happy with it. They also sell V2.4 kits and have a warehouse in Czech

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Go ahead and mansplain voron to me lol...

Of course voron is just a standard design, but in order to be comparable at all, and I mean even to be in the same discussion, to prusa/bambu it has to be a full kit including every single part, only needing assembly.

Sure you can build a voron for cheaper if you spends months searching for deals, suppliers, aliexpress parts, and printing everything yourself.

I will admit, I haven't heard of formbot, but that is quite possibly the best deal on a voron kit I have ever seen! Even paying an extra 200-300 for the printed parts, depending on supplier, that comes out to <1k€. That is a too good to be true deal. I will maybe have to buy one myself!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Get the functional parts over PIF.voron.dev for 110$.

[–] IMALlama 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I can only speak from the perspective of US available parts. The trident is a much closer 'competetor' to Bambu's offerings, so I will use that as the comparison. Since Bambu's offerings are 256mm^3 I'll compare against the 250mm^3 trident.

Note that there are some sales going on for the various offerings below, but the trident is only somewhat more expensive once you factor in things like ASA/ABS for the printed parts.

Bambu's X1c is $1,200

Bambu's B1B is $600

A LDO bom-in-a-box trident is $1,200

A Formbot bom-in-a-box trident is $650

I was able to print functional prints on my old i3 clone with two spools of ASA, so add $70 there. All I did to my i3 clone was tape together a couple of cardboard boxes to make a quick/dirty enclosure.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Check out magic phoenix for voron kits. Good price with included upgrades/mods out of the box.

[–] AbsurdityAccelerator 2 points 6 months ago

By complexity I mean plug-and-play. But, I guess it's not a valid assumption I made.

[–] roofuskit 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Get the Creality K1 max instead of either. No dated design like in Prusa. And it's open enough and easily hackable to repair and modify as needed.

I get all the arguments for Prusa, but right now there's no excuse for how far behind they are in the industry. I would not invest in their machines until they do some catching up. What you get from them does not justify the price. They got complacent.

While Creality is not as open as Prusa it's not as closed down as Bambu. Their parts tend to be more off the shelf and readily available, and they are also cloned by lots of other manufacturers.

The machine will be repairable and have lots of community support for many years to come.

[–] CADmonkey 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I have a K1 and was wondering if it would be mentioned. In the beginning I had extrusion problems, I contacted Creality and they had new, redesigned parts in my hand in a week. Since then it has been a workhorse, slapping perfect prints down every time.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I am deciding between the a1 or k1 since microcenter has the k1 for $430.

Did creality get the lidar workin?

I have a ender 3 v2 and flsun super racer and wanted a third printer to speed things up

[–] Asifall 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

I recently agonized over this decision a bit and went with a Bambu. When it comes down to it, the prusa printers are just really hard to justify given that you are paying more money for fewer features even if you assemble it yourself.

I agree with what others have said that the reliability and longevity of Bambu printers is a concern, but frankly if I’m still into printing in a number of years and Bambu starts to really enshitify, I’ll build a Voron or get something even better that hasn’t come out yet.

[–] AbsurdityAccelerator 1 points 6 months ago

I think you line of thinking just convinced me to go with bambu. If it starts sucking in a few years, voron or ratrig will have grown even more and I'll build one of those.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I bought a Bambu P1S with AMS for Black Friday - something like eur 100 off and a couple of free spools of filament on top of the 3 250g samples they pack in the box. I've only had it about 4 days but it's pretty decent. It's a little loud, but it's fast and enclosed so potentially I could use it with more exotic stuff than PLA. My old printer is an Ender 3 Pro with upgraded board & BL Touch and I reckon this new one is 4x as fast. It's incredibly easy to use - autolevelling, Core XY, filament loading. Only downside is it poops filament out the back and so I reckon I'll have to 3d print a poop slide to bring it around and to the front. The Bambu slicer is a fork of Prusa Slicer - I wish it wasn't so egregiously different graphically but if you've used Prusa Slicer then it's more or less the same except for how prints are sent to the printer.

I've not used a Prusa to compare. People say they're workhorses but I wonder if the Prusa Mk 4 was rushed out judging by some people's comments about the firmware.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The Prusa would be a lot more like your Ender. But like your Ender, they aren't exactly plug and play. That said, they are tried and true work horses. And as another commenter mentioned, very open. Bambu, on the other hand, ships ready to print and from what I hear is reliable and simple. Unfortunately it is much more closed, and you are at the whim of a company that could just decide to kill your printer one day, or take away features with a firmware update.

[–] AbsurdityAccelerator 1 points 6 months ago

That's exactly how I feel. I don't want to tinker with my printer anymore.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago

New Lemmy Post: Prusa or Bambu? (https://lemmy.world/post/9500502)
Tagging: #3dprinting

(Replying in the OP of this thread (NOT THIS BOT!) will appear as a comment in the lemmy discussion.)

I am a FOSS bot. Check my README: https://github.com/db0/lemmy-tagginator/blob/main/README.md